NCU graduation rates

Here is a link to the NCU graduation rates-

http://www.ncu.edu/northcentral-global/consumer-information/graduation-rate

Doctoral - 15.30%

I wonder if the other schools have them published. It would be interesting to compare.

 

I would think that 15% would be about average. I am just guessing, of course, but I'm not surprised at that number. It's a tough mountain to climb.

 

Wow, 57%? That's much higher than I would expect. Maybe I'll make it after all! :smile:

 

You will...just stay in one place! Sorry, I could not resist...

 

Yeah, but also these figures, as far as I can tell, are talking about in-seat B&M programs, which are a world apart from the DL versions. During the program there's a lot more interaction with the school and often a much better support group (from the other students in the program and similar programs). PhD Students are also often reinforcing themselves and their knowledge in the field by teaching classes and being TAs at the same time as working on their program (often to help cover part of the costs). These factors can add up immensely, giving the total opposite experience of desolation, loneliness, feelings of helplessness, and utter frustration that many DL PhD students have professed to experience in their journey from schools like NCU.

Simply put, most in-seat University programs involve (more than) fulltime immersion where DL programs are often treated (by the schools themselves it seems) as part-time dalliances.

 

Also I believe it is over 70% for immigrant students. At prime schools the cumulative averages are fairly high

 

I wonder if the amount of truly qualified doctorate graduates might be closer between online and B&M schools than the statistics lead us to believe. With the open admission policies of many online schools, many get into doctoral programs that have no chance of making it and this might drive down the graduation rate to the 15% area for online doctorates. If online schools only let in the truly qualified, I would think that the percentages might improve. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with open admissions, let everyone who wants to give it a try, but all of those that can't hack it would tend to mess up the graduation statistics. I'm suggesting that the online programs are not designed for you to fail; it's the open enrollment that affects the graduation rates.

 

Hmmm, you mean you will never graduate if you keep starting over? What an interesting concept. I'll have to give that some consideration.

 

What if open enrollment schools put the entrants into a forced master's program first to prove they can hack it before elevating them to be an official doctoral level student to finish off the program? I know many of these programs already require a master's degree, but instead of giving an additional masters as a boobie prize, make them get the master's (or basically the equivlant credits) out of the way first and then say 'OK, you've proven you can make it this far, here's the next tier of classes that you need before entering into the comps/dissertation mode'. I'm also talking about post-transfer of graduate credit into the program, as some places will allow as much as 45 graduate credits applied to the 90 credit program. This way the student knows ahead of time that they have prove they can get through the school's expected style of operation and the graduate rates for doctoral programs don't take as much of a hit. Of course you'll still have the ABD students that totally brain fry and not complete their dissertation process, but that's often more realistic with the grad rates than opening floodgates on lemmings and seeing who's left standing.

How much difference is there really between master's degree level courses and the courses one takes in a doctoral program? According to the (little) research I've done (which mainly consisted of talking to professors and PhD program students) there's little to no difference, except the some of the students related to me that because they were in the program, the professor would give them extra projects to do during the course that the master's level students didn't have to worry about.

 

When will Dave Wagner stumble in here blustering and puffing in defense of his Golden 10% conspiracy?

 

I can't speak to what the differences are in a wholly online model as all of my graduate work was in a traditional B&M setting., In my experience there is a huge difference between traditional phD classes and masters classes. As in not on the same planet. With the exception of a few research tool courses, the workload, required readings, and course and performance expectations were FAR higher. No masters course came close.

 

Thanks for the info, that's interesting to know. The students I got my info from are doctoral students at a local state university going through B&M. The professors I talked to were instructors of classes I was taking, 2 out of the 3 had done their degree online. (Like I said the research I've done was admittedly small in scope.)

That makes me think that my proposal might work even better as far as gauging academic readiness for open admission doctoral programs.

 

I love the "lemmings" analogy! That's a good idea, but I doubt the profit minded schools would do something like that. From their point of view, why bother? The money is coming in. Sad, but possibly true.

The doctoral program I'm in at Liberty is sort of like you are suggesting. I can go halfway through the program and bail out with an EdS. I like having that option.

 

Yes, this is my experience too. Both NCU and now Liberty have required a brutal workload.

 

You mean like this?

Here's my undergrad school stats:

Retention Rate
First-year retention rate 82.0%

Graduation Rate
Four-year graduation rate 36.7%
Five-year graduation rate 61.5%
Six-year graduation rate 66.9%

I only just clanced at the data, so I'm not sure if they list just undergrad or if they go up to grad level too.

 

Interesting numbers for UoP Online campus, if they are accurate:
College Results Online

Retention Rate
First-year retention rate 36.0%

Graduation Rate
Four-year graduation rate 0.2%
Five-year graduation rate 1.3%
Six-year graduation rate 5.1%

 

The unaccredited California distance-learning law schools have a somewhat similar system. Most of them have essentially open admissions, but students are required to take a preliminary test, the First-Year Law Student's Examination (or "baby bar") after one year. This serves as a "reality check" for those hoping to continue on to a career in law. In practice, a high percentage of unaccredited law students do fail the FYLSE.

But the FYLSE requirement is one that is imposed by the California Bar, not by the unaccredited schools themselves. The schools (nearly all of which are for-profit) dislike it, because it means that they lose much of their enrollment after the first year. They would obviously increase their profit (which, as for-profit institutions, is their goal) if they could keep all of their students -- even the poorly qualified ones -- enrolled for the full length of the 4-year program. Other for-profit DL schools probably see it the same way. If you want to operate a profitable business, it doesn't make any sense to "weed out" paying customers.

Students at accredited law schools are normally exempt from the FYLSE, presumably because such schools do not have open admissions, and "weed out" the unqualified before they enroll.

 

I am curious about Capella University's doctoral graduation rate. Does anyone know where I can pull such data?

 

The most official numbers are at the USDoE's "College Navigator" website, which currently lists the following for undergraduates at UoP Online:

First-year retention rate 38 %

4-year graduation rate 1 %
6-year graduation rate 4 %
8-year graduation rate 6 %

You may have to ask Capella. The USDoE College Navigator site only reports such data for undergraduates.