Perception Question Please

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by lukajoey, Dec 15, 2010.

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  1. lukajoey

    lukajoey New Member

    I know nothing about Colorado State's reputation, but am familiar with Northeastern's good rep. (at least here in the northeast) as a solid Boston university. What are your thoughts please on which degree would be looked at most favorably in regard to teaching jobs, and consulting in the corporate realm. I'm looking for "first impression" impact considering only the doctoral program and nothing else please:

    PhD in Education, Colorado State University

    vs.

    EdD in Education, Northeastern University

    Thank you
     
  2. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    The answer to you question might depend on what form of education you are hoping to move into. Are we talking about corporate education and training or traditional university education?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2010
  3. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    As far as the two schools go I doubt if most employers or consultants worry about perceptions. It's your resume/experience/knowledge that counts.

    But as far as degrees go I believe a PhD beats out a EdD. I know some very smart people who are not familier with an EdD (and even less know what a DBA is).
     
  4. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I agree with Ian. If you get an EdD (like me) you will forever have to explain to people that it is a real doctorate. This is especially true outside of formal education circles; most people I know in education know what an EdD is. On the other hand, if you get a PhD, there will be no question in anyone's mind that you are a doctor. Even though, as Dr. Pina suggests, the EdD is equal to the Phd, it is still not as well recognized.
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    If I'm not mistaken, Northeastern's EdD program was only established a few years ago. The EdD program may not have existed long enough or produced enough graduates to have a reputation of its own yet. As you know, Northeastern in general has a solid regional reputation in the New England / Mid-Atlantic area.

    Colorado State has a solid regional reputation in the western US. It may well be one of the top schools for education doctorates in the Rocky Mountain region, since there are relatively few research universities in this part of the country.

    If you plan to stay in the northeast, then there will be more people who are familiar with and respect Northeastern, even if they know nothing about the EdD program specifically. Your original post stated that you "know nothing about Colorado State 's reputation". Well, most other people in the northeast probably don't either.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2010
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Both schools are tier one national universities, but that's at the undergraduate level. Neither one has made a mark in the graduate study of education -- Colorado State's graduate school of education is far enough down the list to be unranked (meaning it's somewhere between 180th and 278th place), and Northeastern doesn't show up at all.

    But that probably has the most bearing on whether you'd be competitive for full time faculty positions. You said you're interested in consulting, and for that or for teaching part time I expect either school would do. Colorado State's program costs about fifteen grand more than Northeastern's, in case that's a factor, and it looks like it might be faster to get through Northeastern's program.

    -=Steve=-
     
  7. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    On the other hand, if you live in the northeastern US (which is apparently the case for the OP) and you have a degree from Colorado State, you will forever have to explain to people that you got the degree by DL. Colorado State is not a well known institution in the northeast (as the OP himself acknowledges), and people will naturally be curious about it. You will have to field innocent questions like:

    "Did you like it in Colorado?"
    "Did you ski a lot?"
    "Did the altitude bother you?"
    etc.

    To answer such questions in a completely truthful manner, you would have to acknowledge that you got the degree by DL, and actually spent little or no time in Fort Collins. Realistically, some people have a negative perception of DL degrees, even those from B&M schools.

    If you live in the northeastern US and have a degree from Northeastern, then this is completely unremarkable. People will respect a Northeastern degree, but they probably won't find it to be particularly interesting or ask further questions about it. They will just assume that you went to school in Boston, like plenty of other people that they know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2010
  8. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    This is presumably a reference to the USN&WR ranking of graduate schools in education. Colorado State is listed, but its rank is not published, which implies that it is in the lower half of the 278 ranked schools with doctoral programs. The absence of Northeastern from the USN&WR report rankings is probably because the EdD program is too new.

    As stated previously, I suspect that the perception of the Colorado State program is probably higher within the Rocky Mountain region specifically. But that doesn't help the OP much if he lives in the northeast.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2010
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    If you're planning on working in the East then I might give Northeastern the edge. In the West, CSU.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Yes, I was referring to them, but I suppose I'm also aware that their rankings should be taken with a very large grain of salt.

    -=Steve=-
     
  11. Go_Fishy

    Go_Fishy New Member

    Colorado State is an amazing school with a stellar reputation - at least it will be when I start my M.Ed. program there next fall. ;)

    In all seriousness though, CSU is what it is: a rock-solid state school in the middle of a pack of other rock-solid state schools. Coloradans go there, and people who want to be in Colorado or who want to study Veterinarian Medicine (#2 in the country) and whatever else CSU is especially good at.

    There is a distinct advantage in attending a large state school: People don't have to know anything about it to accept your credentials as valid. Everyone in the country has heard about CSU (or their abyssmal football program ;)), and those who haven't still assume it exists (because most states have a State U). On the other hand, CSU used to be and still is very much an A&M school: if it doesn't have to do with solar panels, crop science, or cows, they may not care so much, even though I think their business school is pretty well-regarded. CSU is also a very traditional school: cozy college town, focus on undergraduate education, etc.

    How this will work for you in terms of a Ph.D. program I'm not sure. Your focus is probably different than mine, but I applied to both CSU and NEU (both master's-level Education), got accepted by both and will go to CSU. I had a stellar experience during the application process, and for me (because of transfer credits) the school is just a really good deal. Read my review at the bottom of this page.
     
  12. Deez007

    Deez007 New Member

    Hey dude

    Why not try what my buddy did. He simply joined one of the facebook groups/fan pages related to the universities he was considering. He took a look at the general population of these Facebook pages and noted the comments and pictures that were posted to try get a feel of the kind of people that attended the institute. Then as a final measure he make contact with 10 random people from each of the fan pages/groups and he eventually chose the one that had to most interesting people out of the 10 randoms he chatted with... he said that people were more than happy to help and provide him with details about the university and what their likes and dislikes about the place.... hmmm just a thought :)
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    If you are deciding between these two schools, then you are in a good position. Both are nationally recognized universities with solid reputations. You should not have to explain or justify your degree with either school. Your major consideration should be: Which school has the best program for you, with coursework and specializations of interest to you? If you are serious about a university faculty position, then you will want to look at the research interests and publications of the faculty, to see if their interests match yours. The Ph.D. versus Ed.D. should not be the deciding issue, but if all things were equal, what Micahel says about the perception of the Ph.D. is true.
     
  14. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Please note though, that I am not devaluing an EdD whatsoever. As you can see, I'm going for an EdD myself. I just realize that some people don't know what it is. Even now, when people ask what degree I'm studying for and I say EdD, I often then have to explain to them that it is a doctorate. This is especially true for individuals who are not involved in education.
     
  15. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    Colorado State University has a good rep IMO, I was looking into this school because they had a variation close to my major; but in the end, it was just slightly different and I opted for another university.
     
  16. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I apologize for misspelling your name, Michael. I started a Ph.D. program, transferred to a different state, and found the best program for me at a university that only offered the Ed.D. The research comparing the Ed.D. with the Ph.D. in education has found little or no difference between the two degrees except in the way that they are perceived by the general population (which you correctly pointed out).

    The problem is that there are three ways of classifying doctoral degrees: Research doctorates, first professional degrees and professional doctorates. Many think that the latter two are the same, but they are not. First professional degrees (J.D., M.D., Pharm.D., D.V.M., D.D.S., etc.) are not research degrees--they are degrees that qualify one to enter a particular profession. There is no dissertation and a masters degree is awarded after (not before) the first professional degree. The fact that most of these carry the title "doctor" adds to the confusion.

    Research degrees require a research component (almost always a dissertation) and are normally entered into after one completes a masters degree. The U.S. Dept. of Education classifies the Ph.D., Ed.D., D.B.A., S.J.D. and several other degrees as equivalent research doctorates. The USDOE does not classify the Ph.D. as "higher" than the other research doctorates.

    The first professional doctorates (the most popular being the Ed.D. and D.B.A.) were invented by Harvard's schools of education and business as a result of Harvard's prohibition against any other unit but the College of Arts and Sciences to offer the Ph.D. degree. While the intent may have been to create a first professional degree, like the M.D. or J.D., this did not happen. The Ed.D. and D.B.A. ended up being, by and large, a Ph.D. administered by a school of education or business, instead of the graduate school or school of arts & sciences.

    A few universities, such as Vanderbilt, have redesigned their doctoral degrees so that their Ph.D. and Ed.D. degrees are significantly different than one another. At the vast majority of universities, this has not happened, so that a Ph.D. in education at one school is pretty identical to an Ed.D. at another. Most Ed.D. dissertations are not "applied," but utilize the same research methodology as Ph.D.s in education (according to the only large-scale study on the subject).

    Now, having said that, this research does not seem to make much of a difference to the average person, who has heard that Ed.D.s are "Ph.D. lite." It is similar to the argument that face-to-face instruction is always superior to distance learning, despite decades of research findings to the contrary.
     
  17. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    That's a good point; in fact, CSU was historically (until 1957) known as "Colorado A&M".

    If you are curious about "first-impression" impact, then those who know something about both schools may perceive them as follows:

    - Northeastern University has a more "corporate" image, due to its urban location in the Boston-Washington corridor, and its strong reputation for co-op education in partnership with major firms.

    - Colorado State has a more "ag-school" image, due to its relatively isolated location and land-grant roots; its reputation is still strongest in fields like agriculture and natural sciences.

    This is not necessarily a good reason to pick one school over the other, but superficially, it's fair to say that the schools do contrast in these respects. As indicated previously, both are well respected institutions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2010

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