Harvard ALM time limits?

I know I can just call them tomorrow, but just in case someone here knows right now:

1. Is there a time limit for completing the first 3 courses? (could you theoretically take them over a period of 9 years, and then apply for admission to the ALM program?) If so, what is the limit?

2. Once admitted, is there a time limit for completing the rest of the courses? If so, what is the limit?

If the answers to these questions are already available I would appreciate a link -- haven't found them though.

Thanks!

 

There is no time limit for completing the Bachelors degree program. All other programs are limited to 5 years.

Ask a Question: Harvard Extension School

 

Thanks for the link.

So is 5 years measured from:

a) the date of admission as a degree candidate in the program to completion of the program; or

b) the date of beginning the first course in the process of gaining admission as a degree candidate, to completion of the program?

I can't tell which measurement they use from the Q&A on the website.

 

It doesn't hurt to ask the admin guys, but my understanding is that:

1) The 5 year clock starts at the end of your third course, when you're eligible to apply,
2) You need to be admitted within 2 years of completing the proseminar or you have to retake it, and
3) If coursework is more than 10 years old, Harvard has the option to reject it.

See, Enrollment and Residency: Liberal Arts Degree: Harvard Extension School for info on 1).
See How to Apply: Liberal Arts Degree: Harvard Extension School for 2) and 3).

 

You are correct that the time frame isn't exactly clear on the ALM website. In fact, the way the ALM folks actually compute time limits is NOT fully spelled out on the website and it is QUITE complicated. It is generally (a) in your discussion above. However, that assumes you handle things traditionally and take your three courses (including the proseminar) and then apply for admission. But it is not necessary to proceed in that traditional fashion. I have already taken 5 courses (and another in Jan) all distance learning, for the ALM. But not the required proseminar...so I am not yet a "candidate". I began in 2005 and my last course was 2007. Last week I communicated with Peter O'malley---he is the one to speak with on these matters--- and my personal clock may extend to 2015. But I can't exactly understand why!
So take courses and put off the candidate application and you will have a long time to do it.

 

This is a question I talked to adcoms with at length. Their party line is that you should do your first three courses asap and that the proseminar is inside those 3. When I pressed them and asked the question a few other ways "what if I .....then.... and...." all essentially resulting in either not getting the proseminar in my first 3 classes, or not applying until after 5-6 classes, etc. she was very very vague. In my case, I had a timeline that was to complete 4 DL classes (2 per term) then attend the proseminar over the summer. She said that was fine. Keep in mind, that meant applying AFTER that summer since you have to have the proseminar done to apply. I think they are flexible- I don't think they are hard core about the classes you take BEFORE you apply. I think they assess your 5 year time limit once you have applied for admissions, and I'd bet they are retroactive to some degree, but I sincerely got the impression that they were flexible. Also, if you have a large gap, I'd be willing to bet you could simply leave that old class off to get your 5 year time line current. For instance, my last HES class was in 2009, so if I started up next year, I might just ignore that old class to preserve my time line.

Which major are you thinking of? My best DL class of all time was through the HES. Loved it.

 

So it looks like this is more ambiguous than I thought. The link I referenced above explains that, "If the application is delayed, the 5-year limit is determined by the number of requirements yet to be fulfilled." I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds like the clock may start when you apply, not at the end of your third course, with some flexibility on the administration's part for special cases.

In any case, if you're considering the ALM program and haven't taken a class yet you should pull the trigger. Getting a course under your belt will give you a better understanding of the effort involved (a lot) and the demands of the program (high). Since they reserve the right to disallow courses taken more than ten years ago, even your theoretical 9 year time frame should be safe.

 

I called and got my answer:

The 5 year limit is measured from when you are admitted to when you complete the program, not from when you first start taking courses.
You can indeed take 9 years to complete the first 3 courses if you wish.
You can take more than 3 courses before applying for admission; however the 5 year limit from time of admission may be shortened if you have fewer than the standard number of courses left to complete. (So if you take 6 courses and then apply for admission, your time limit will be less than 5 years, according to the person I spoke with).

Seems reasonable.

 

Good luck to you! I wish I were joining you!

 

Which course did you take that was so good?

At the moment I don't have a specific major in mind, just 2 courses which I'm quite keen on taking, which could count toward a range of majors. I already have a masters degree from a leading B&M university so this exercise is more for personal interest and keeping my mind sharp than anything else. However, I reckon if I'm going to do the work, I might as well make sure I'm positioned such that my efforts will be counted later on if I come to desire a second masters degree in the future.

The first course I plan on taking is Advanced Quantitative Research Methodology. The course seems to cover some novel things which are not included in the other statistics and econometrics courses I've completed previously. And my life doesn't have nearly enough real math in it right now so I'm looking forward to some algebra. There's also the possibility of (re)applying for competitive Ph.d programs in the coming 1 or 2 years, and doing well in this course would only strengthen my profile.

The second is World Economic History. I love this stuff but don't know nearly enough about it. I find it shocking how little of economic history economics graduate students are required to know, and I feel that I'm a worse economist because of my lack of background in this econ subfield. Even after a lot of hours in libraries trying to improve, I'm nowhere near the level of knowledge I expect from myself.

If the first goes well I will take the second. And if the second goes well I will evaluate the courses on offer and my personal priorities at that point, and decide whether I want to commit fully to an ALM major. There seems to be a glut of political science- and sociology-related courses right now, which are not my preferred subject matter for $2000 per course. I'd love to see more graduate level math, statistics, and economic theory made available via distance learning.

 

Yeah...not quantitative methods. lol
I took Abnormal Psych for grad credit. Specifically, I'm not talking about content, I'm talking about format. I'm a teaching nerd that way- I hate lazy teaching/lazy busywork classes, and HES was none of that. The majority of my dl experiences have been very similar: a forum, a text, some generic power points or multimedia, online mc quizzes, exams. What made HES unique, first off, is that you really are not in an online class- you are in a class, and your participation is via distance. There is a huge distinction. There are lectures, they are uploaded within a day or two after class. There are section meetings (just like real college lol) and these are sometimes videotaped too, there are power points/text/etc, but you have TAs that you communicate with via email and in my class, we were required to participate in campus based research experiments. There are hundreds of experiments and trials going on all the time, so it's easy to pick among those that you can do via computer survey (what I did) but the campus students went in and actually got involved.

The only school that came close to (what I consider) being as innovative was Andrew Jackson with it's web cam forums and proctor U (Back before everyone else was doing it). Everything else I've taken is just another variation of imitation vanilla. (7 schools)

I have no idea about the classes you are looking into because those were not even on my "consider" list. I have watched something like 8-9 of the "first 2 hour" videos for several subjects. I found that only 1 was awful (and I don't think it's a class anymore- something about protest literature) and everything else was great. I wish I could register for the HIV class for spring, it's been on my wish list for 3 semesters now, I've watched the "first 2 hours" twice lol.

P.S. I VERY much enjoyed the heavy emphasis on writing and the critique from VERY smart people. It matters. I won't go on and on, but people who think you are buying only a brand name, frankly, have no idea. It reminded me of being back at The Culinary where everyone wanted the best, everyone worked hard or harder than you, and everyone was good. It's infectious-contagious-and motivating. I love being in places like that, and I could feel it through my computer. Nuff said.

 

I am confused.

What do you mean I'm in a class, and participation is via distance? I wasn't aware that class participation was required in distance learning other than text-based forums -- do I need to get a webcam? Do I need to be sitting at my computer at predetermined times of the day/week? I was not aware of such requirements at HES.

Also, I thought my course was going to be taught by professor King, not a fellow grad student/TA. Currently there are 2 students enrolled in the AQRM course. Assuming the final number is fewer than 20, why would there be a need for a TA? Or sections? Or section meetings?

FYI I have hardly any experience with American universities so some of this is pretty foreign to me. Where I'm from attendance and participation are optional, grades are determined solely by performance on exams, research projects and dissertation, lectures are from professors, and tutorials are run by the same professor (except in the case of a class of more than 75 students, then there might be a TA for tutorials).

Experiments... ok you were doing psychology so these are to be expected.

I guess what I'm wondering is how flexible or rigid is HES? Can people actually be penalized for not "participating" as frequently or exuberantly as others?

 

The answers to your questions vary by course, but it looks like in this class you'll watch recorded lectures from Prof. King two hours a week and meet with a TF (Teaching Fellow, just Harvard's name for a TA) for one hour a week. This class is co-taught with the College, GSAS and the Extension School, so there will be more students than those who sign up through HES.

The course website is here -http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k76029&pageid=icb.page385645 - but it's still very much under construction. Here's a syllabus from previous semester to give you an idea - http://gking.harvard.edu/gking/files/g2001syl.pdf.

The goal in this class is to produce a publishable paper, and apparently most of the final papers, even from undergrads, end up being published in a scholarly journal. It'll be a great experience and you have a good chance of getting a publication out of it.

 

And if you've already registered, you can look at the Q Guide, the course evaluation site, for feedback from previous students - https://webapps.fas.harvard.edu/course_evaluation_reports/fas/new_course_summary.html?course_id=22397 (login required). The most interesting part will be the comments under, "What would you like to tell future students about his class?"

 

Just be very sure that you're cool with being in the Boston area if you hit HES. It's an extension school, not a distance school and there are some significant ass in chair requirements. One of the people in this thread posted about taking 4 DL courses and I'm almost positive the most DL courses that can be applied to a major is 2 per the extension website's information.

Granted the "professional" degree programs are a lot more lax than the purely academic programs. As an example.. there are specific course requirements for the academic degrees that state you must take X number of courses (I believe it's 6) with actual Harvard Faculty (class not marked HES Only). Professional programs don't have this requirement anymore from what I'm told, therefore I wouldn't be surprised if the DL component was also relaxed.

 

I am confused. So sorry, I'll try to elaborate.


What do you mean I'm in a class, and participation is via distance? What I mean, is that Harvard isn't an online school doing online classes. The classes are happening in person, with real people sitting there- just as an option they record them for you to watch on the internet. (same courtesy to the seat students, the lectures are for any student in that class) So, technically, you're at a 24-48 hour disadvantage, as there will not be extensions given to you because you are a distance student. If the class has "distance option" that means the class is happening on campus, so you will just be gone-but everything is still due, etc. If it says "distance only" then you will be watching prerecorded lectures. In a nutshell, they make the regular class a "distance option" by simply not taking attendance.


I wasn't aware that class participation was required in distance learning other than text-based forums -- do I need to get a webcam? Participation will be well defined. It's up to the professor, but I have never seen that requirement. Section is generally NOT required for distance students, though sometimes campus students are required to attend. In my class, section attendance was optional, so that was just something I had to miss since I lived 1200 miles away.

Do I need to be sitting at my computer at predetermined times of the day/week? I was not aware of such requirements at HES. NO!!

Also, I thought my course was going to be taught by professor King, not a fellow grad student/TA. It's very likely that your professor King will teach all/most of the lectures. We had very small topics presented twice by a TA, and 1 guest speaker if I recall.

Currently there are 2 students enrolled in the AQRM course. Assuming the final number is fewer than 20, why would there be a need for a TA? Or sections? Or section meetings? Totally up to the professor.
FYI I have hardly any experience with American universities so some of this is pretty foreign to me. Where I'm from attendance and participation are optional, grades are determined solely by performance on exams, research projects and dissertation, lectures are from professors, and tutorials are run by the same professor (except in the case of a class of more than 75 students, then there might be a TA for tutorials). Generally, the professor has total autonomy here. You can go into any HES class (now) and read a sample syllabus or old syllabus. There are vast differences, so just poke around and you shouldn't have any trouble finding out what is expected.
Experiments... ok you were doing psychology so these are to be expected.

I guess what I'm wondering is how flexible or rigid is HES? Can people actually be penalized for not "participating" as frequently or exuberantly as others? As far as I know, your participation will be written forums and section (maybe) which may or may not be part of the course. AGain, if you are in section, it might simply be watching a video, or a separate folder in the discussion forum - that was the case in my course.

 

6 is the max distance learning option for any of the 19 majors in ALM degree. There is no way around 2 summers (likely 3) on campus.

 

Very helpful post, thank you.

 

Thanks, this clears things up.