Best way to get a "legal education" without going $150k in debt

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had creative ideas as to how to get a legal education without
going into indentured servitude. Ideally, I'd like to go to ABA-approved law school, earn
a J.D. and go into practice. However, I've read horror stories about law students who
graduate, can't find a job, and end up delivering pizzas while living in their parent's
basement. My "goal" (if I really have one) is to become a sort of legal kung fu master, able to handle myself in a court-of-law against all the unscrupulous
businesses and people I've ran across. I'm open to the idea of other avenues and not
being a practicing lawyer. I've read some of the articles on Master's of Legal Studies, the U of L LLB, and even going to law school via correspondence in CA (yes, I know
about the baby Bar and the fact that you can only practice in CA, not practice in other states, ad nauseaum). I've toyed with the idea of becoming a paralegal, but
that curriculum doesn't sound like it matches my needs or wants.

Anyone have any creative suggestions as to how to make that happen?

 

Sometimes a brand new law school will give full tuition scholarships to it's first year students and very deep discounts to its second and third year students in order to establish itself. There are two fairly new law schools in the state I'm in that did this in the past decade. You might want to do a search of new law schools that are at least provisionally ABA accredited to see what they have to offer.

 

Where I live there's an ABA law school that has a weekend program. It allows you to keep your job while in school. It would be a huge commute for me but people attend from all over. Maybe there's a program like that near you.

 

I don't know how much this school costs in comparison to the typical law school, but this guy managed to make a bit of history:

First Online Law Grad to Make Mass. Lawyer

Here's the case:

ROSS E. MITCHELL vs. BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS.

 

Hi Kizmet -

I seem to remember that you're local to the New England US area. What school are you referring to? I'd find this helpful.

Best,
ITJD

 

UMass-Dartmouth has an Evening/Weekend program.

The Evening/Weekend Program

The Law School’s evening/weekend program is particularly suited to the needs of those who want a legal education but because of family or employment responsibilities cannot attend a traditional program. Required classes in the program are offered on Tuesday and Thursday evenings and Saturday during the day; electives are also scheduled on Monday and Wednesday evenings. This permits students who hold full-time jobs the opportunity to attend law school. Students are, of course, subject to the same reading requirements as at any law school. Despite their work and family commitments, students find that this is manageable. The program takes about four and one-half years to complete.

 

Noted, thank you AU.

Unfortunately, that's the program I thought was being mentioned. Good to know more nonetheless. Very hard to manage for me considering I'm up by NH.

Best,
ITJD

 

That would be a lot of driving from NH. Have you looked at Suffolk. That drive would be more managable. Also, I recall you mentioning in a previous thread that you had a desire to study, but not practice, law. Have you looked at Harvard Extension? They added a legal studies track just this year. Maybe something to consider since you could do a number of your classes online and the classes in residence typically only meet one evening per week. You could also get special student status if you kept your grades up and possibly take electives at HLS or HKS. Just a thought.

 

What about Massachusetts School of Law at Andover? It's right off of 93, in Andover, not that far from the NH border.

From their website:

When MSLAW was founded and full-time New England law school tuitions ranged from $11,000 to $16,000, one of our goals was not to participate in the constant upward spiral of law school tuitions. We set an initial full-time tuition of $8,000 per year. In the 18 years of MSLAW’s existence, its tuition has risen a few times to be sure, in order to insure that the school always remains in excellent financial shape. But today MSLAW’s tuition still is only $14,490. per year, far less than the New England average, in fact only about 40 percent of the New England average.

If you are interested in practicing as a lawyer after graduating - MSLAW students are eligible to take the bar in MA immediately after graduating; after passing that, you'd be eligible for the bar exam in NH.

 

To threedogs:

Yes, I'm aware of Mass School of Law at Andover. They're actually a 10 minute drive from the house and I've done a tour of their campus. The pro to their program is the strong practical focus, price and location.

The con to their program is the lack of ABA accreditation as well as the faculty's strong anti-ABA bias. (They've sued the ABA in the past). That aside, doing a socio-ec study against their student demograph, I'm not a good fit.

To AUTiger:

Suffolk School of Law is a block from my office. Pro to them is they're a law school that spawned off of a school focused on adult education and their connections in the local legal scene are excellent.

Con is that their schedule for evening classes isn't conducive to my wife's teaching schedule and I've got family to care for in her absence. Great school.

HES is probably the best fit for now, and I thank you a great deal for pointing that out. I don't really care how long the path is, (as I'm likely going to be taking classes when my time comes) so long as I'm on the path.

Best,
ITJD

 

ITJD, we're neighbors (sort of). I must live near your office. I live right down the street from Suffolk in Beacon Hill.

At any rate, I think Suffolk gets a bad rap. You put that law school in any other metro area and it would have a much stronger reputation, but in Boston they have to compete with Harvard, BU, BC and Northeastern Law.
A girl I dated for a while went to Northwestern in Chicago for undergrad then came back home to Boston and went to Suffolk for law school (She was rejected from, or didn't apply to the other schools in the area). On her first interview out of school an employer looked at her resume and said: "Northwestern to Suffolk Law, why the downgrade?" I laughed my ass off when she told me that story, but that really does seem to be the nature of Boston. Everyone here is so educated and competitive about where you attended school. It would be really funny if it wasn't so sad.

Back on topic, I think the HES thing sounds like it would be perfect for what you're looking to get out of a program. Plus you can customize it/take the courses you want and not have to deal with core courses that aren't very interesting (do you really want to spend a semester studying tort law?). You should take a look at their course offerings, they have some interesting stuff coming up in the next two terms.

 

Yes, I agree - I'm aware of the lack of ABA accreditation, and that pushed me away from them when I was considering the possibility of law school (in the future). I really, really like Suffolk - they have been the working person's law school, and have produced some notable politicians - esp. Joe Moakley (their library is now named after him), who was a totally amazing rep and human being (I knew someone who grew up with him, and knew him personally - I think he was the ONLY politician he respected).

HES is also great, IMHO - can't go wrong there. I'm still considering a way to attend, although it would be a long-shot for me (financially).

Good luck - and let us know what you decide!

threedogs

 

California, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington all allow people to "read for the bar" after various forms of appenticeship or similar arrangements a cousin passed the bar first try in Washington doing this after becoming a paralegal and working for a judge that supervised his studies and then he took the bar exam after several years.

And I do think one can take the UoL Law degree by examination externally and that can be an in to taking the bar exam in various states you could check that out.

 

Hi - sorry but I have been napping on this thread. Initially I thought that it was Andover but then when I looked, it doesn't seem to be there. Maybe my memory is off. New England (in Boston) has an evening program, if that's any help.

 

To AUTiger -

What's the overall benefit of becoming a special student aside from being able to take courses at the other Harvard schools? Is there some special merit on the transcript of a HES student with special student status? Some recommendation in terms of future programs were I to later attempt to apply for a SJD program or Ph.D program?

Thanks,
ITJD

 

Well special student status is gained by maintaining a 3.5 GPA through (I believe) three classes. Beyond having the ability to petition for cross registration (it still has to be approved by the host department) the 3.5 GPA qualifies you for honors at graduation if you maintain the grades. Though there are no written rules about this assisting in admission to another Harvard program, I know of 3 people who used the extension school to gain admission to other Harvard programs (2 Got into the MPP program at HKS,another got into the history PhD program). those are just the people I personally know. I know there was a student a few years ago that got into HBS after attending HES. The 3.5 gap also qualifies you for scholarships through HES.
I think building relationships with Harvard professors who can champion for you in the application process is more beneficial than special student status is gaining admission to one of the other Harvard programs, but I think that holds true for most things, it's who, not what you know.
I hope that helps.

 

Thank you.