Is it deceitful, dishonest, unethical, or lying by omission to list on your resume...

the degree exactly how it's listed on your diploma, transcripts, and exactly how the University instructs students to list it? (Major run on sentence...sorry)

The other thread clearly went after PSU so I'll start this one in order to muddy the waters even more.

The other thread really only focused on one single school regardless of the direction the OP wanted to take it. This is really a broader issue and the previous thread did not properly address the full question.

Let me preface this post by revealing my bias (as if you didn't see I'm a PSU student from my sig). Let me also say that AuTiger00 has always been a quality poster who was actually one of the people that helped me ultimately choose PSU. With that being said let me get to the point....

I sat last night pissed at what was essentially an attack on PSU. I thought about responding, but I knew the thread would devolve even more than it already had. This morning I awoke refreshed with a new set of questions that actually take this point even further.

So refer to my above question for details. Is it deceitful, dishonest, unethical, or lying by omission to list your degree (on your resume) exactly how it's written on your diploma, transcripts, and how the school instructs students to include it?

If you answer YES then you need to take a long hard look at how you list your degree as well. This argument can easily be taken a step or two further and suggested that you also need to include whether or not it was taken online, via correspondence, or even a hybrid mix of online/B&M. Why? Because according to some posters it is lying by omission to not include it. This applies to Harvard and Harvard Extension AuTiger00 as well. Whether or not you assume an HR person could tell the difference is inconsequential. By leaving this off you are also lying by omission as well hoping that it might sneak by the interviewer. After all this was your point right? Lying by omission doesn't simply apply to one very specific part of your resume does it?

The reality is I don't agree with the above paragraph at all. Regardless of whether or not it's PSU, Harvard, Penn, UoP, etc. The way you list your degree should follow the guidelines set forth by the University...period. If you want to go after PSU and claim they are getting students to lie on their resumes, fine, be my guest, but the reality is that the student is doing nothing wrong.

I don't know how I'm going to list it once I get to that point, but I can tell you at least this much. When I do finish I will have earned a degree from a well known, highly ranked, rigorous school. I will also have earned the right to be called a Nittany Lion and PSU Alumni...regardless of what any of you think. Your opinions (which is all they are) do not go against the school policy (which is factual).

 

I agree with the OP. A degree is a degree, and as long as the individual is using the degree in the way the school intended, who cares about the rest?

If we get bogged down with the rest of the crap, then aren't we acting like the snobs that think earning a degree online is a joke?

 

Follow the school's instructions. The burden is on the school, as I stated in another thread. However, I think we can all agree that if specifically asked, then the student is compelled to respond accordingly.

After mulling over the thread, I reviewed my transcripts and resume and removed the word Management after my MBA since it was not listed on my diploma or transcripts (transcripts actually list a major of Business Administration, kind of redundant, eh?) despite it being listed as a concentration available on the school's website, and despite completing 18 hours in Management.

 

Kevin, I was going to use your post in the other thread as well. I agree that if asked, included on an application, etc. you MUST ALWAYS say how the degree was attained (online, etc.), which campus, professors, or anything else that is asked. If you don't then shame on you, and you should face the consequences of those actions.

 

The whole PSU thing has obviously caused a lot of butthurt around here. Soupbone, please believe me when I tell you that I was in no way taking a swipe at Penn State in general or the World Campus in particular when I tried to help Beagle412 with his decision to attend one b-school or another. I was simply trying to address the particulars of the poster's situation, which were:

1. A desire to earn an MBA to advance his career in tech management, and
2. A spending limit around $50K for the entire program, and
3. As high-profile a program as possible, in case he ever decided to relocate.

The fact of the matter is that a PSU MBA without the Smeal branding does not carry the same weight as one from the flagship business school. Yes, they are both "Penn State" MBA degrees, and yes, the diplomas will look pretty much identical. But the courses you complete are just part of the MBA package you buy into. The iMBA doesn't get you the same kind of access to recruiters and the alumni network that the Smeal MBA (or EMBA) does, and for the kind of money that the World Campus asks for their iMBA, there are much better deals at equally (or even more) prestigious b-schools. If I'm going to drop $50K on an MBA degree program, I want to be studying with the absolute best of the best, and quite frankly, PSU's best MBA students aren't in the iMBA program.

For my part at least, my criticism of Penn State is limited to the fact that they have clearly capitalized on the rise in popularity of MBA programs by trying to flood the market with eight different MBA offerings (see my post in the other poll thread) while trying to simultaneously protect the exclusivity and prestige of their flagship b-school. They are marketing themselves in a way that is designed to confuse prospective students, and I feel like that is deceptive, and that it will ultimately backfire. When it does, it is students and alumni that will suffer, not nameless critics on internet message boards.

 

I would argue that perception trumps reality in every instance where such things matter. If those who make hiring decisions perceive a difference between campuses and act thusly, then it is the reality of a single unified institution that is moot.

 

Agree completely.

 

Agreed. On this and on Fortunato's previous comment about PSU's excessive MBA offerings.

 

I know this is sort of off the subject, but when I went to an interview years ago, I was asked about my degree. I simply said that I went to American Military University, which is an online University that is well regarded in the Government community.

I know, I know, it is off that subject, but still...

 

Ok I wanted to add a few more thing to my post so that we can be a bit more confused.

Take a look at these links --> http://adammsweeney.com/Diploma.JPG

and http://www.channelj2.com/img/diploma1.jpg .

Do you notice anything that stands out? PSU lists on their diplomas several items...some of which clarifies and some of which adds a little more confusion (depending on which degree you look at). The MBA actually shows the Smeal college which would indicate that you attended University Park. I don't know what the iMBA looks like, but I have to assume it does not say Smeal on it.

Ok so here are the facts that I've gathered so far. PSU lists on each diploma the level of degree (bachelor's, master's, etc.) the major (engineering, turf management, etc.), any options (public health preparedness, agricultural biosecurity etc.), and the College where the degree is being conferred (College of Medicine, College of Engineering, etc.) Nowhere on the degree does it list the city where the degree was conferred. Confused yet?

 

I can't edit without seeing a million "winkie" emoticons or some crazy tags that won't go away. Anyway I wanted to add that I don't want to derail this thread even further (by keeping it focused on PSU) so if you have pics of other schools diplomas it might help show how different schools list their degrees.

When I get home I'll post a pic of both TESC degrees I have and show how it lists everything. This comparison could definitely serve us better in this thread.

 

Ack ok I'm guilty of this again, but I think it helps. Here's another link on what PSU's diplomas look like--> http://vitoriaamirabile.com/images/TORI%20DIPLOMA.jpg

Now let me post another one I found --> http://www.spiritualmarketingcoach.com/images/Penn-State-Diploma-(color)-02.jpg

I'll keep looking but it doesn't appear that this is something new that PSU has changed to conceal the campus designation.

 

Except that the College name may be linked to a specific campus. For example, the 2003 English diploma that you previously linked to -- this one -- clearly lists the name of Behrend College, which is at Penn State-Erie. So it is not the same as the PSU diploma that you would get if you graduated in English from University Park. The latter would presumably be issued by the College of the Liberal Arts.

 

It's less important what is listed on your diploma than it is what's listed on your transcript. Most schools only list the name of the college/university, your name, degree (e.g. Bachelor of Science, Master of Arts, etc.) and the date of conferral. Sign at the bottom. That's it. PSU has the uncommon practice of listing the major and school/division on their diplomas.

 

Most diplomas also list the town in which the degree was conferred towards the bottom, just above the signatures. PSU does not do this.

 

I agree it's odd but this diploma --> http://www.spiritualmarketingcoach.com/images/Penn-State-Diploma-(color)-02.jpg was issued in 1975 and looks nearly identical the the ones issued present day. I wonder what a really old one looks like...

 

As of 2005, PSU is organized into many "colleges," as follows:

- There are a number of different "Colleges" at the University Park campus (College of Education, College of Engineering, College of the Liberal Arts, Smeal College of Business, etc.)

- Five other PSU campuses (the larger ones) have the status of standalone "Colleges" (Abington, Altoona, Behrend [= Erie], Berks, and Capital [= Harrisburg]).

- 14 other PSU campuses (the smaller ones) are lumped together administratively as a single "University College"

If current PSU diplomas consistently include the name of the College -- and I'll bet that they do -- then PSU diplomas would in fact differ, depending on the campus. An English degree from PSU-Beaver would be issued by "University College" of PSU, an English degree from PSU-Erie would be issued by "Behrend College" of PSU, and an English degree from University Park would be issued by the "College of the Liberal Arts" of PSU.

If this is in fact the case, and if PSU considers your College important enough to list on your diploma, then shouldn't your College also be listed on your resume?

 

Incidentally, that's the reason why these five campuses have the status of official NCAA member schools (Abington is not yet on the official NCAA list, because it is currently only a provisional NCAA member). However, they compete in NCAA Division III, while the University Park campus obviously competes in NCAA Division I.

The 14 smaller "University College" campuses are not members of NCAA (although they sometimes play NCAA schools). They primarily compete against each other, in the non-NCAA "Penn State University Athletic Conference".

 

I think you should state it. Not all campuses are the same. That would be like listing University of California on your resume and hope that the employer assumes it is from one of the better schools. If the best PSU school is Smeal then it will be obviously absent from your resume and someone will probably ask. If you graduated from Smeal you would no doubt write that on your resume correct?