Brick and Mortar Grad Snobbery

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TruckerX, Jul 31, 2010.

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  1. TruckerX

    TruckerX New Member

    I harvested the title off of a Plenty Of Fish discussion.

    The author basically stated that young women who have 'degrees' hold a superiority complex. I'd just like to add to that statement that in my experience it is not only young women but young people that graduate from Brick and Mortar programs seem to have this 'I'm better/smarter and more wordly than you' attitude. Generally young people who have had their parents foot the bill. I have only spoken with one other online grad and he seems to be pretty down to earth.

    Currently, I am attending Athabasca for a General Studies degree, I've been abroad teaching for the last 5 years and have experienced some of the worst snobbery and 'holier-than-thou' attitudes you'll ever come across. This year I decided to return home and take up trucking to pay for my university degree... just so that I can go back to my industry and blast all those little snobs..

    You wouldn't believe the extent of snobbery that exists out there:
    I've had lines thrown at me like "I can't believe someone like you would be representing people like us!", "How dare you teach without a university degree, you are taking advantage of your students!", "You are not a REAL teacher!"... folks I have 2 college diplomas, attended both CELTA and TESOL and have 5 years of teaching experience in 3 different countries under my belt but I get junior teachers looking down their nose at me as soon as they find out I don't have a degree.

    To add insult to injury, my baby brother (7 years my junior) is a grad of a local prestigious brick and mortar school and since he returned home he has been a 'know-it-all pain in the ass'. I've been around the world, lived in 5 different countries and worked several different blue collar jobs to fill in the gaps but he always seems to think he knows better and treats me like a child. Brick and Mortar culture has also added a drinking problem to that mess. After 4 years of classes he still has no idea what he's going to do with his life and thinks he might just go back to get a masters.......

    What the hell about Brick and Mortar makes young people so stuck up?!? I would think that if you had to work a full-time job AND push yourself to pursue a degree ONLINE then you might not be so stuck up. The only 'students' I have ever gotten along with were people who were taking adult classes.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Out of curiosity, are these people the first generation of their families to attend university?

    -=Steve=-
     
  3. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member


    A famous (or infamous) and log time degreeinfo poster, Dr. Steve Levicoff, earned his degrees and then took up trucking.
    Steve Levicoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  4. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    I feel like the OP might have a complex about having earned his degrees via distance. I find it extremely hard to believe that EVERY graduate of B&M schools that he has interacted with looks down their nose at graduates from online programs, I certainly don't and have earned both of my degrees in a traditional manner (though I have taken some online courses).

    Why are you so concerned about the perception these people have of you and your education? Are they people in positions of authority over you? Are they potential employers that won't hire you because of your educational background? Are they people in a circle that you would like to be included in? If not, then I'm not sure why you are so concerned about their opinions.

    Be confident in the knowledge you have and your skills and abilities and don't worry so much about what other people think.

    Also, I wouldn't put much credence in the stuff your little brother says. My kid sister just graduated from Washington & Lee, one of the top 20 liberal arts schools in the US, and she thinks she knows everything too, but I know she doesn't and that's good enough for me. She, like your brother, is young and will learn quickly that she in fact doesn't know everything regardless of the university name listed on her sheepskin.

    Just my two cents.
     
  5. jeezem

    jeezem New Member

    the way to process that is to just look at it as they are proud of their education, and it is common for young people who have little worldly experience to view people different than themselves negatively because they are insecure and know they have little real world experience - also, such behavior is a sign that they are threatened by you in a way because they are forced to see their path as having competition, so - see it as a compliment. people aren't going to change, so - it is on you to get thicker skin, and improve how and when you inform others about yourself.
     
  6. Go_Fishy

    Go_Fishy New Member

    My thoughts exactly.

    And just to add a few thoughts that you won't like, TruckerX, it is a sad truth that anyone who is a native speaker of English can find a teaching position abroad if he stays away from quality programs. People take advantage of that, and I've seen some HORRIBLE "teachers" out there.

    Those insults you received were uncalled for, no doubt, but an ESL/EFL teacher needs solid theoretical knowledge, which is generally acquired in a Master's program in the discipline. I wouldn't let anyone without an architecture degree design my lecture hall, and likewise, I wouldn't let anyone without a degree in TESOL teach my ESL/EFL students.
     
  7. cravenco

    cravenco New Member

    This is what I tell all. Regardless if you going to school online or not.
     
  8. BrandeX

    BrandeX New Member

    Good luck filling the demand for native speakers to practice oral English in Asia then.
     
  9. Go_Fishy

    Go_Fishy New Member

    You don't need native speakers - you need well-trained individuals with native-like English proficiency.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Maybe in theory, but if you try that something tells me that the school next door that advertises that all its teachers are native speakers will drink your milkshake.

    -=Steve=-
     
  11. BrandeX

    BrandeX New Member

    These people will magically materialize from thin air, without having been trained by native speakers?

    It kind of reminds me of the thread somewhere around the net here about credential inflation, and needing a bachelors to manage a Burger King. I'd suggest a certificate course (typically required), but you don't really need a degree (most people have completely unrelated degrees to ESL in this industry although legally in most countries an "any" degree is required) to teach people how to write sentences, or pronounce "She sells seashells..." etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010
  12. Lukeness

    Lukeness Member

    There are people from all over the world who would fall into this slot very comfortably. Loads of South Africans are doing it because of the favourable exchange rates and nationals from various other countries where English is wide-spread such as India, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Botswana could also take advantage.
     
  13. BrandeX

    BrandeX New Member

    No offense personally, as I also have many international friends, however hardly anyone will hire you in most regions of Asia with a South Africa or any other passport besides the "big 5" countries: US, UK, CAN, AUS, NZ. Again I am not defending this practice, it is just the reality of the situation here. Unfortunately as well, "native speaker" most often translates to: "white person", and it is more difficult to get a job if you are black, or even worse a fellow Asian, in Asia. It would not be uncommon for schools to choose unqualified individuals over those better suited, due to their nationality and skin color alone.
    You can see a glimpse of this in some of the job ads at http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/ (one of the more popular sites for job postings). Even if race/nationality isn't mentioned, a "scan of your passport" (to decide if they should even bother emailing you back) always is.

    Regardless, the OP has a CELTA which is typically regarded as the best credential in this industry outside of an MA in TESOL. The reality is, employers really usually don't care if you have either, just if you can do the job. (As I mentioned governments typically require bachelors for work permits, to "most" schools themselves it makes no difference.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2010
  14. Lukeness

    Lukeness Member

    This could well be true, being a white guy it's not something I've even considered.
     
  15. PatsGirl1

    PatsGirl1 New Member

    Also I think it's part of the "younger generation". They are just (vast generalization and oversimplification here, I understand) seemingly more self-entitled and think the world owes them something.
    I have 2 younger bros, 20 and 21, and they are BOTH like this. 90% of their friends are too (with some exceptions). One has an A.A. degree in Photography from an expensive private school (College for Creative Studies in Detroit, if anyone has heard of it) and one has an A.S. in IT from a local CC here. I just say that for point of comparison. I am convinced it is "kids these days" lol, not necessarily where or how you earn your degree.

    FWIW I did my undergrad about 70% B&M and 30% CLEP/DSST/Online, and my MBA is 100% online. I'm not very snobby at all and no one I know my age is really, either. One of my closest friends went to Harvard and Yale for B.A./M.A., respectively. She is one of the least pretentious people I know. I'm not convinced it has anything to do with where you earned your degree at all.
     
  16. cjzande

    cjzande New Member

    Meh. What did Margaret Thatcher say? "Power is like being a lady - if you have to tell people you are, you aren't." Something like that.

    Generally, I find the people I talk to who are the most smug/self-satisfied about their degrees, to the point that they feel it necessary to tell me how great they are and how smart and educated and so on... are usually the *least* genuinely intelligent people I know, no matter where they earned that degree.
     
  17. perrymk

    perrymk Member

    I frequently tell people I've been educated way beyond my intelligence.
     
  18. BrandeX

    BrandeX New Member

    I think potential B&M snobbery could actually be jealousy. They had to sit in a class room almost daily for 4+ years, vs. the DL person who likely did it in less time, part-time, and from home. (Often for much, cheaper too.)
     
  19. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    There are surely some outlying individuals who are vocal about their condescention of DL, but are they really a significant many or are some DL students self-conscience to the point where a single critic makes them feel defensive?

    Of the people that I know, those with B&M degrees are the most accepting of DL as a respectable alternative, whereas those without degrees are the least. Isn't that an interesting twist to your observations? :) I could easily generalize and say that there is a sort of non-academic snobbery where people who don't have degrees feel more accomplished than people who do have degrees, especially via DL.

    My opinion: if you are happy with what you have done, then there is simply no need to defend yourself to anyone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2010
  20. lawrenceq

    lawrenceq Member

    I agree 100%
     

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