College Inc.

Frontline on PBS ran a pretty damning report tonight on for-profit education. They didn't delve too much into accreditation, other than to say that investors prefer to obtain struggling regionally accredited colleges. The reason for this is that obtaining RA is time-consuming and expensive ("10 years and $10 million" is the quote from the program).

Schools mentioned in the report are the major players: UoP, Ashford, Everest, Argosy, etc. The program questions the default rate of students taking out expensive loans to attend programs at these schools.

You can watch the whole program here.

 

Where I work (large for profit), they sent out emails about this program to all employees and told us to be on the look out. Very interesting program that comes at the heels of reports that UOP is recruiting homeless people in shelters to be students:
Report Hits For-Profit Colleges for Aggressive Recruiting at Homeless Shelters - The Ticker - The Chronicle of Higher Education

 

Another great PBS program is "Declining by Degrees", which gives a good look at the state of higher education, and looks at adjunct teaching.

 

They did make a good point early on to an average person in the current job market to have a decent chance at a career you Need a college degree at the bachelors level. And many colleges that are RA and traditional are designed to leave out students who may be average, or not proper material or didn't have the right preparation. So they do oddly fill a need that is not being met.

And its not untrue how many students out of High School are employable like they were decades ago or given meaningful vocational preparation like they really should be offering? Few if any. And that is sad K-12 education is practically free for the student so why are we allowing students to leave High School in the main without preparation to do meaningful work and place them in a position where these schools can move on them.

 

It seems that there is a narrative that these shows are supposed to follow. I haven't watched it yet, but I think we all know the rhetoric.

Are there some schools that use more aggressive tactics? Yes.

But, I managed to rack up a lot of loans at a SLAC, where no one questioned if I would be able to repay my loans as a theatre and anthropology major. No one worried when I took out more loans at a very large state research school to work on an MFA in directing. And yet, for some strange reason, when I left that program, I had a tough time getting a job and paying back the obnoxiously large amount I had borrowed. Does that reflect badly on these two esteemed institutions?

Those who can afford higher education without federal programs will always have access to it. But, the American system of education ties access to education and the idea of an enlightened population with our concepts of democracy. We want an informed citizenry. But I don't think this is just a problem with the for-profits. (Not all of which choose to participate in Title IV.)

I have friends who do make a living (and presumably have paid back their loans) having studied in fields as diverse as early European pottery, abstract expressionist art, latin american literature, archaeology, and math (I don't know what circle-packing is, but I'm told that it is math...). But I also know people who are far more employable having studied to be paralegals and mechanics at for-profit schools where they took out student loans.

 

How is such old news even a story? I thought it was common knowledge that these schools are inferior and a rip off?

 

I think many of the .com colleges use high pressure sales pitches (and some of them use out-right lies) to sign up students. While that may be true of some not-for-profit schools, I've not personally encountered it in my various student endeavors.

How one views the matter is, to an extent, a matter of how much blame one assigns the "victim" and how much one assigns the snake-oil salesman. Sometimes, a fool and his money are doomed to be parted, and if it isn't a shady school doing it, someone else will. Still, the worst offenders not only use high pressure sales tactics, the worst also have recruiters who lie to the students, telling them whatever will make the sale.

YES! You can get a good job in criminal justice with a felony conviction! Just get it expunged! Our ex-con students do this all the time!

It is difficult to feel much but contempt for schools that lie to their students so blatantly. I know someone who quit a job at a .com college because he could not sleep at night. He said he was expected to tell the students just such lies, in order to keep that Federal student aid rolling in.

That anyone would buy the concept that she can become a nurse without ever seeing a patient is a bit far-fetched. And I do have to wonder about such naivete. But the lies that are fed to the naive are no less reprehensible just because they were told to those with less worldly sophistication than the good denizens of this board.

 

Speak for yourself

 

The program mentioned Chancellor University a couple of times but did not say they they were close to losing their regional accreditation (currently they are under a "show cause" notice).
I don't think the interview with Jack Welch did any great favors for Chancellor.

 

Yes, Jack Welch came off in a very bad light. Very cocky and flippant, IMO. I've not seen him before so I have no idea of how he really is, but he did not offer an encouraging image for an educational institution.

 

Interesting piece.

 

How about a special on the less than wonderfuls...

I watched the show with interest. I felt that the special was well done, and balanced.

I sent an e-mail to the producers about another ugly underside of education that we discuss on the board, the unaccredited schools with phoney accreditation, such as the MUST's and Breyer's of the world.

Shawn

 

I completely agree unaccredited schools that lie to people are something they should report on, and those selling degrees which both may be bigger issues. Some still get an education from for profit schools and with reforms such schools could be better.

 

My greatest concern is that these schools have 10% of the students. Yet, these students represent 44% of the default rate on federally subsidized loans. This statistic is alarming. When they default, guess who picks up the tab? The tax-payers. These schools are making billionaires of a few, by admitting students who cannot succeed, charging them way too much for tuition, and then ultimately we pay. THIS problem must be regulated!!!

 

Here is a legitimate MUST = Missouri University of Science and Technology?????????????
http://dce.mst.edu/index.html

They have a great DL program in my area of expertise but their tuition + fees are close to $1,000 per unit.

 

>>

mmmm, that's not exactly true that "we" pay. Student loans are hard-core. Student loan debt doesn't go away, and if you owe, YOU get to pay.

Any income you make for the rest of your life is up for garnishment, any child support you think you might get, any unemployment you are otherwise entitled to, any tax refund, etc.

AND, if you want any type of driver's license or hold a state license for your job or profession- they hold it till you pay up.


Common Disputes Involving Defaulted Student Loans

 

Actually, it is true. While the student cannot duck out of the loan, if the student does not make enough to pay the loan, the U.S. government does. While collection efforts will continue, ultimately it is like the S&L crisis and other such financial crises since that time - because there is a federal guarantee, WE PAY when the students do not pay. If the student is a homeless bum, we pay. If the student works at McD's, we pay whatever the garnishments from his minimum wage burger flipping job don't pay.

 

If anyone is interested, UoP has put up a website to respond to the documentary.

http://www.phoenix.edu/about_us/media_relations/university-of-phoenix-responds-to-frontline.html

-Matt

 

Sales and marketing costs are equal to half of their instructional budget????

And how much do they pay their instructors?