Do you think that DL doctorate programs are doomed?

This question is a direct result of a post I read recently in which the author states that DL doctorate programs are doomed. He suggests that the fact that there are so many new DL programs lowering standards and thereby producing more and more doctorates that the market will become flooded with doctorate holders. When this happens, the author suggests that DL doctoral programs will go out of business due to loss of interest in a degree that has become ubiquitous.

What's your opinion?

 

By the way, I don't agree with this hypothesis.

 

As long as people are willing to pay (and they will be) there will always be DL doctorate programs.

 

Maybe they can rename it the Mini-Ph.D.

 

How do we know the DL doctorates are getting easier? Who's shown that DL doctorates are generally easier than their traditional equivalents?

 

Doctorates have traditionally represented the highest levels of scholarship, research and practice. To the extent that they continue to represent that, they will continue to be competitive.

There do seem to be a growing number of commoditized part-time doctorates out there, marketed as resume-boosters by schools with no real scholarly or professional reputations and by programs with no visible intellectual life.

My own opinion is that low-end part-time PhDs may or may not succeed in getting somebody a fat raise, but they won't be very competitive in situations where employers really do need advanced expertise and when close attention is paid to academic background. (There's also the question of why employers should waste their organization's money paying for employee educational qualifications that aren't really necessary.)

It's true that many DL programs seem to have found their niche in this unambitious region of the market, but I don't think that's directly due to the DL medium. There's no reason why a DL Berkeley couldn't exist if somebody wanted to start a highly selective, intellectually active, research intensive DL doctoral program. DL programs could become competitive with the stronger programs in their fields if they made the effort.

I don't think that DL doctoral programs will be truly competitive until the day arrives when professionals can't stay current in their fields without paying attention to ideas and results that have emerged from DL programs. That day hasn't arrived yet, but the DL medium isn't what's holding people back.

 

I agree. We could call it "credential creep" when the doctorate is the new masters. Maybe someone will have to get a second doctorate to enter the elite when that happens.

 

I don't know any way to prove that they are. My program is definitely not easy.

 

My guess is that academic credentials usually won't take you far on their own, but are quite powerful when added to a strong work history in a related field. Maybe, there will be few sets of academic credentials that will take you far without real-world experience. So if you get your doctorate while you're young...take an entry job and then kick-ass, and if you're older then go back to school and capitalize on your experience.

 

..and if the OP is referring to my post on the matter (as I've written similar several times on this forum), the above statement from Maniac is exactly the point of my arguments. Demand for something generally results in an increase in supply. Once saturated, the market constricts or evolves to a new product...

Thanks,
ITJD

 

When I originally argued this point, I made reference to the German academic market. I'll offer the below, taken from wikipedia.

"Upon the completion of the habilitation thesis (Habilitationsschrift) a senior doctorate (Dr. habil.) is awarded. This senior doctorate is known as the Habilitation. It is not considered a formal degree but an additional academic qualification. It qualifies the owner to teach at (German) universities ("facultas docendi"), plus the holder of the "habil." can apply for the authorization to teach a certain subject ("venia legendi"). This has been the traditional prerequisite for attaining the title Privatdozent and employment as a Professor at universities. With the introduction of Juniorprofessoren - around 2005 in Germany - as an alternative track towards becoming a professor at universities (with tenure), this has changed partially, and the Habilitation is no longer the only career track at universities."

Taken from Wikipedia on March 31st 2010 as found at the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate

Now as stated above, even this is changing, but I'd find it more likely that a designation based on attracting funding/doing research or focusing on instruction would be the next step as opposed to multiple doctorates, but there's already plenty of precedent for the multiple doctorate route at this point.

Thanks,
ITJD

 

David Hapgood called it Diplomaism in his book by the same name. In 1971.

While there might be some movement--due largely to the greater availability of such degrees to working adults--it is an iceberg.

I would contend that there is a minor leap from a bachelor's to a master's, but a gulf between a master's and a doctorate. It is not a smooth slope up the credential mountain by any means. Thus, while we might see a large proliferation of master's degrees, I don't think that can be projected to the doctoral level.

 

Interesting numbers here: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf10308/

Except for science and engineering--two fields hardly touched by DL doctorates--it's pretty flat, dropping even (if you remove S&E from the count).

 

No. That's unlikely to happen.

What might happen, if easy part-time PhDs become more ubiquitous, is greater differentiation among individuals with PhDs.

That's already what typically happens in academic and scientific hiring. The golden doors to "the elite" don't automatically open up just because somebody sports a PhD. So what? Everyone around them already has that degree. That's not the differentiator, even now.

If doctorates in management (and that's what I sense that this thread is really about) become more common, then employers are just going to be looking more closely at where the degree was earned, at who the applicant studied with, at professional contributions such as publications, at recommendations from individuals that the employer respects, and most crucially, at relevant reponsible professional experience.

Employers aren't going to pass over a candidate with a good doctorate and a strong cv in favor of somebody with two weak doctorates or boasting a pompous WIDU-style Grand-PhD.

If MBAs are ever upstaged by management doctorates, then management hiring will just start to look more like academic and scientific hiring already look today.

I'm not sure whether things will ever arrive at that point though. I certainly hope that they don't. But if things do continue evolving in that direction, that's what things will look like.

 

My 2 cents is that although a DL doctorate would probably face stiff competition in academia, if you combine it with solid work experience and credentials it would be powerful in the general workforce. These days with high unemployment rates and competition at an all time high any advantage would be good in my eyes.

 

I don't think the DL doctorate degree is doomed. if this is the case, then the DL MBA is also doomed or any other DL degree. For example when my current cohort started the new Ed.D program at Capella, last June, there were 10 other cohorts that consisted of 30 students each (300 students). Now, after 3 classes, there are 6 other cohorts of 30 students. My current cohort which started with 30 students, is down to 10 of the original students. I notice that many students in the cohort, thought that a DL doctorate would be easy. Most would say, well they never had this problem with their master level work. I am sure more will drop once we hit the research and dissertation phase. I think there are more people entering DL doctorates, but what is the completion rate?

 

Very good point. A quality DL doctorate is very difficult to complete. It's also very expensive. Those are two factors that should contribute significantly to the drop-out rate.

 

This report cannot be true. I don't believe it. That is truly shocking. Does a school that starts 300 doctoral students actually intend to graduate ALL 300 students? Wow. The unmitigated gall behind this business model is astonishing!!! Intentional breakage. (And I rarely use more than one exclamation point...) Again, I don't believe this report.