KVBC story on UCLA soccer coach with Columbia State degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jason Vorderstrasse, Jan 24, 2002.

Loading...
  1. Jason Vorderstrasse

    Jason Vorderstrasse New Member

  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    He's not the only college coach with a Columbia State degree. If ABC ever wanted to go down that road, there's more out there, trust me.


    Bruce
     
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    They put the story on sooner than planned, since UCLA apparently said there would be an announcement "this week" on the matter, and they wanted to be clear that they had the story first.
     
  4. The tie off a loose thread, I assume this is the story alluded to here.
     
  5. A complication is that there's a legitimate Columbia State Community College (in TN, I believe).
     
  6. KidDL

    KidDL member

    I am going to go out on a limb here and say I almost feel sympathy for this person. Yes, I realize that he did this to himself and he deserves whatever punishment is to come. I guess I am just saying that I hate to see anyone ruin thier life by making a bad choice. But life is full of choices [​IMG]
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Oh, no. I mean *THE* Columbia State University.


    Bruce
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What is really disturbing here is the fact that so many people who read/hear a story like this, immediately associate all DL with bogus institutions like Columbia State.

    Russell
     
  9. DWCox

    DWCox member

    You are 100% correct. Columbia State Community College is located in in Columbia, TN -- 50 miles south of Nashville.

    Regards, Wes
     
  10. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I've spoken 3 or 4 times this Thursday evening to reporters at the Daily Bruin, the campus newspaper at UCLA. Apparently this matter is big news on campus, and they plan to cover it in the Friday edition, which I hope will be findable online. They said the coach refuses to talk to them.
     
  11. Jason Vorderstrasse

    Jason Vorderstrasse New Member

  12. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    Well, at least he didn't lie about his degree. I do find it hard to believe he did a year's worth of work. I am wondering how it was graded and what type of comments he got back. Anyway, maybe he didn't know it was bogus otherwise he would have known he could have gotten the same sheepskin for no work at all.

    John
     
  13. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    According to the very long and detailed request for a search warrant, prepared by the Postal Inspectors (which I have read, but don't have a copy of), based on many months of research and talking to current and former employees, the modus operandi of Columbia State was to offer all degrees in 27 days or less -- but if a customer appeared to want to do some work, one woman was assigned to go to the local Barnes & Noble and buy a book in the general field of study, which they would mail to the "student" with a form letter requesting an up-to-10-page book report.

    No one read it, of course -- and one book was the most they ever did. I suppose if you read v e r y s l o w l y, you could take a year to "earn" your degree.
     
  14. Jason Vorderstrasse

    Jason Vorderstrasse New Member

  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    The notion that someone could truly, truly believe they were earning an accredited degree from Columbia State stretches even the notion of credulity. His attorney says the coach was duped: "He's an innocent victim of CSU as were apparently thousands of others." Oh, please.

    Is there any doubt someone like this should be exposed? The lying continues long after the original sin. But this is the one that gets me:


    "Todd believed that Columbia State University was a legally accredited university.... He did take actual courses and he did have textbooks that required him to read and, in some cases, write a report on," said Gelb, who said Saldana completed classwork via the Internet.


    Riiiight. We know this is not true; he didn't take courses, and he certainly didn't do it over the Internet. I have no sympathy for this crap.

    People like this give legitimate distance education a bad name. They also defraud universities andtheir students with their false credentials. And they take competitive jobs from other, properly qualified candidates.

    This is no better than stealing. No one with any moral scruples would knowingly let a theft go unreported. Why would anyone refrain from reporting this? No, I agree (as I've said before) that anyone who publicly claims a bogus credential is subject to exposure. This coach is the one who presented his Columbia State degree for all to see. No one went through his trash or his hard drive to find it. No one snuck into his house and pulled it from the wall. To let this slide would be tantamount to co-conspiracy in this sham.

    There is nothing wrong with the "tactics" (as another poster has called them) involved in exposing these frauds. No one is breaking the law or even violating anyone's privacy. It is the defrauders who are making their claims of bogus degrees public. Once there, these claims are available for anyone to examine and scrutinize. Monica Lewinsky can cry all she wants about privacy; she doesn't deserve it because she went public with her activities (and continues to do so). Neither is Saldana entitled to privacy; he went public with his bogus claim, too. That he is attempting to defend it publicly through his attorney shows just how right it was to expose him.

    He should shut up and slink away quietly. Maybe he can spend his attorney's fees on tuition for an ethics class. I'm sure UCLA offers one. (Undergraduate, of course!)

    Rich Douglas
     
  16. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

    Yes, there is reasonable doubt. I am not defending this person. A person is considered innocent until *proven* guilty. He may well be guilty as hell. I don't know. You don't know for sure.

    Either way, it doesn't look good for the coach, but *everyone* deserves due process. It is a right. Any of us can speculate, but none of us know his intent, motivation, or level of understanding.

    For example: An issue I raised a couple of days ago: What if he bought - hook, line and sinker - the "life credit" fabrication of the bogus school? Countless people do. Just because someone works in academia doesn't mean they understand academia. I've known an awful lot of academics who didn't.

    Please don't interpret my statements as "defending" this man, degree mills, or bogus credentials. I am defending basic humane values and rights. He could well be guilty, but he hasn't had due process.

    We are innocent until proven guilty, verses tried and convicted in the press.
     
  17. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    "...shut down in fall 1998 after it was discovered that it lured students into spending money for phony college degrees."

    LURED!?!?!?! Students were lured??? I guess if you are ever arrested for stealing, you can just say that the open cash drawer lured you to place some of it in your pocket.

    Let's see, my local college takes 4 years for a BS, Columbia State takes 27 days. Hmmm? No reason to question that.

    Lured!!!! Give me a break.
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, we are not. We are all judged daily by the preponderance of the evidence, and the burden of proof is on us that we are what we say we are. While it is nice when people take us at face value, they are certainly not required to do so. And when we give an indication of being untruthful, we lose any presumption that we are what we say we are.

    Civil cases are decided all the time on which party the judge believes more. Would anyone believe this person is anything but a fraud? Perhaps tomorrow we will be shown that the coach is really a graduate of Columbia University, that the listing for Columbia State is a typo. But today he is someone who got a job with a public university he did not deserve, using a fake degree and lying (through his attorney) about how that degree was "earned." The press has every right to examine this issue (see the First Amendment), as do we.

    (Note that UCLA says they've known about this for some time. They are either being very cautious in their handling of this--which is in the coach's favor--or were hoping this would all go away before being uncovered. Either way, they've not been hasty in discharging him. Sounds like he's getting a lot of "due process" and consideration. I'd have canned him in a New York minute.)

    Rich Douglas
     
  19. There's currently a poll on this issue at http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/db/default.asp

    Though the questions are severely flawed -- you get a choice of whether "Coaches should be required to hold high academic standings" or "Degrees don't matter when it comes to coaching" but not "Academic fraud is unacceptable at UCLA (ragardless of whether a degree should or should not be required for a coach)".
     

Share This Page