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  1. David H. Wilson

    David H. Wilson New Member

    Are writer's essentially self-taught, I don't mean necessarily autodidactic but "of" his/her own person? Can this be learned DL or must one be lead as in a "true" liberal arts college experience? For example, I don't think Oscar Wilde could have BECOME through coloring in dots on a CLEP test, but I digress...

    Dave
     
  2. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    That's pretty much been my experience (as someone who isn't quite a successful writer yet, but has hung around a few); writers tend to be self-starters, and this carries over to education pretty well.

    On the other hand, there's more to writing than actually, well, writing; I spend most of my time pitching proposals, and most people who are serious about this are in the same boat. Picture a struggling actor shuffling from audition to audition trying to find a suitable gig, and you''re looking at the same basic dynamic a new author has to deal with. In that sort of situation, a degree never hurts.


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  3. David H. Wilson

    David H. Wilson New Member

  4. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    There are at least a few people around who believe that writing can be taught. You can find them at places like:
    Antioch (the one in L.A.)
    Bennington
    Goddard
    Vermont College of Norwich U.
    All of which have Masters level degree programs in creative writing. Perhaps great writers are born, not made, but what about all those writers that are not-so-great but still get books published? Maybe they got some help in school, huh?
    Jack
     
  5. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    I will second Tom Head's comments. My wife is a professional freelance writer and a member of the American Society of Journalists and Authors (http://www.asja.org/). Her an d most of the rest of the writers from that organization have a degree but not in writing. The one area where a writing degree seems to have some validiated is true Jounalism such as newspapers and some news magazines.
     
  6. pmn

    pmn New Member

    I've been a newspaper columnist and magazine article writer. Sometimes a poet. I also teach writing. I believe writing is a combination of desire, education, desire, reading a lot, desire, perseverence, desire, having a day job (not necessarily in that order). I've also taught at writers' conferences.

    There comes a point where learning how to write is a comfort zone...one needs to bite the bullet (or the word processor) and just write.

    Books on the subject always help. Some great writers on writing: Natalie Goldberg, Anne Lamott, Annie Dillard.

    It also helps to subscribe to writers' magazines and book clubs.
    pmn
     
  7. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    I think there are as many ways to get to be a writer as there are writers. George Willard, a friend who passed away a few years back, GRHS, had a two step program:

    1. Apply butt to chair.
    2. Apply fingers to keyboard.

    That seems to be more or less the way to do it.

    There are things you can learn from courses, such as grammar, punctuation, and so on. Then, a good read through something like Strunk & White. A teacher/mentor will be able to help you identify potential weak areas -- or at least a workshop with competent, constructive feedback can really help here.

    Some kinds of writing require a lot of research to learn the style and expectations. Formal papers, for example, follow specific formulas that can only be learned by reading papers in the particular field you wish to write.

    Other kinds of writing require a lot of personal examination. Literary fiction, for example, requires a certain amount of insight into the human condition.

    So, my final answer is that it all depends on what kind of writing you wish to do, and what kind of writer you wish to become.

    As already mentioned here -- read books on writing by writers. A classic is Gardner's _Art of Fiction_ -- if you wish to become a serious author of fiction, it is required reading. Do the exercises. Think about what Gardner says. For short fiction, I strongly recommend L. Rust Hills, _Writing in General and the Short Story in Particular_. I don't know if it's still around, but Blocks _Telling Lies for Fun & Profit_ is excellent as well. (Yes, it's still available on Amazon, just checked.)

    Finally -- read what you want to write. Write what you love to read. Get feedback from people who aren't afraid to tell you where your weaknesses are. Don't be afraid to have weaknesses. Work on them. Lose sleep over your craft. Take a few courses just to discover what the other students are doing, how they are approaching problems.

    Cheers,




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    Quinn
     
  8. elrich

    elrich New Member

    I've researched this issue also,wondering if a writing degree would help me in writing. But I've found that you learn by writing, writing, and more writing. And tons of reading. Plus a few good books on writing doesn't hurt. Sol Stein has a good book on writing. If you're interested in Fiction writing, Stein also has a decent software program called Fiction Master which helps you develop your writing (www.writepro.com). I think he has a non-fiction program, too. Writer's who get degrees from the schools mentioned above usually go on to teach writing. After doing my research and evaluating my needs, I feel the best education will come from just sitting down and writing and reading--something I've done a lot of all my life. Writer's Digest has seminar classes you can take online that also teach specific areas of writing. I hear they're decent enough classes (www.wdonline.com)
     
  9. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    You knew Hossie?! it is a small world!

    I remember George Willard, and he was an extremely kind, helpful influence on me during my brief stint in FidoNet WRITING back when I was 13ish and extremely neurotic. I knew he had a terminal illness of some kind (never figured out exactly what), but he was very direct and 100% BS-free ("Levicoffian" is probably the right word, or close enough). One of the things I remember about him--besides looking for The Horse Man, which I probably should not have tried to find at age 13--was the two-part plan. I thought he was being a little blunt at the time, but over the years I've found out he was right on track. There really isn't any other way to write; that's the way you have to do it, just like you have to walk by putting one foot in front of the other.


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  10. The Horse Man!

    "Hossie"!!

    Well beyond Levicoffian I would say.
     
  11. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    I was 13 and on a failure kick; all of that stuff went right over my head with a resounding whoosh (and still does, for the most part), but his kind demeanor and down-to-earth advice didn't.


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  12. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    Quinn: Please drop me an e-mail at [email protected], if you would--I'd love to get back in touch with the old WRITING crowd, 8-10 years post facto and see how they're doing, etc.

    I also see--and, now, remember--that you were part of the WRITING (and, later, BARDROOM) crowd back in 1992 or so when I signed on. I always thought your name sounded familiar, but I shrugged and wrote it off.

    If you remember me, it's as "THOMAS HEAD" (usually posting from Fidonet 1:3632/7.1 or 1:3632/37), the kid who started off in writing talking about how he was worried about being a failure in life if he didn't write books, and ended up posting bad song parodies in BARDROOM.


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  13. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    In WRITING, that is, not writing. Eek. I started off in writing by, well, writing. I did a picture book (complete with yarn binding) about a friend's cats when I was 5ish, and wanted to write a sci-fi novel when I was 6ish-7ish.

    For me, it's always a fascinating experience to look at my old stuff and see how much I've changed, and how much (in many ways) I haven't changed at all.


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  14. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    You see? I'm not a pseudonym. ;-)



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    Quinn
     
  15. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    No, you're definitely not a pseudonym. :p

    Thanks for the e-mail stuff, Quinn, and sorry I'd forgotten you--what can I say. There has been an awful lot of water under the bridge since then. (Though after browsing a list of old WRITING/BARDROOM regulars, I'm suddenly flooded with old memories, various book titles, scraps of song parodies, and very much how it all felt. I'd forgotten how much fun I had on those echoes.)


    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Tom Head
    www.tomhead.net

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
     
  16. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    Hossie is a legend. His BS detector was a finely tuned instrument. Nil nisi bonum de mortuis. ;-)



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    Quinn
     
  17. OK.
     
  18. ddcameron

    ddcameron New Member


    I have in my hand an excellent book by Gary Provost: Make Your Words Work. This book has been used in college level courses that Gary (now deceased) could not teach for want of proper credentials, i.e. degree.

    One of the best on writing. But to succeed in writing it is more important to sell your work. Tom is right. Queries and proposals are the name of the game.

    David

    P.S. The book, if you can get it, is well worth the study.
     
  19. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    'Preciate that, Gert.



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    Quinn
     
  20. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    I do not desire to nitpick, but the correct syntax, I believe, is, "De mortuis nil nisi bonum." [​IMG]

    Gus Sainz
    http://collegedegrees.tripod.com
     

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