Excelsior or Thomas Edison

Which is better and why??

 

It depends. Both are inexpensive and flexible. Excelsior has been known for being more generous with testing credit, and offers some very flexible programs. Edison has introduced instruction to some of their programs, and offers some majors Excelsior does not. Excelsior is private, Edison is public. Edison offers life experience credit, Excelsior does not (but will accept such credit awarded by another school and then transferred to Excelsior). Both are inexpensive, fast, flexible, and useful. I don't know that you could make a case for which degree would serve you better, except that Edison is a state college, which might mean something to some people (or not).

Study both schools and enroll in the one that will best meet your needs and restrictions.

Rich Douglas

 

My short answer:

In technology fields, usually Excelsior.
In nursing, always Excelsior.
In humanities and social science fields, usually TESC.
In business, it depends on your field.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Humanities - TESC? I was thinking Excelsior because of the GRE Literature in English. On the CLEP Humanities General I scored 93% after 6 days "studying". But thank you for the advice.

 

Good thinking, David. I scored a 580 on the GRE Subject Exam in History and earned 30 credit hours from Excelsior for the effort. I'm *hoping* to do as well on the Literature in English exam in April. The best part is that the Lit in Eng exam will complete the requirments for my Bachelor's degree; I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Charter Oak will award 18 credit hours for a high pass on the GRE Subject exams; you may wish to review their programs as well.

Regards,


Tony

 

1) TESC is state funded, Excelsior is not. If money is tight, TESC can sup at the public trough but Excelsior cannot.

2) TESC evaluates portfolio credit. Excelsior accepts portfolio credit but does not evaluate it, that is done elsewhere.

3) Excelsior has a very comprehensive and easily accessible online library of catalogs, sample test papers, and other student related reference documents. These make life much easier for self-starters to act as their own best advisor. This is a big factor in favor of Excelsior in my opinion (though TESC does now have an online catalog and an online degree prep catalog series).

4) Excelsior awards letter grades (from which GPA may be calculated) for proficiency exams, TESC does not.

5) Excelsior awards generous credit for a good pass in GRE subject exams, TESC awards no credit for GRE subject exams.

6) Name matters. State institutions such as TESC may find greater acceptance than Excelsior. Some feel more assured by a state college. Some feel the name "Excelsior" leaves much to be desired. I think it sucks.

Lawrie Miller http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks

 

Tom, could you give reasons for your last two statements, please.

Thank you,

Dennis Siemens

 

I'll grade their customer service, administration skills -


Excelsior D-
Thomas Edison A-


West

ASM - TESC
BS - Excelsior

 

Interesting.

I had uniformly positive experiences with the staff in Academic Programs/Advising, Test Services, and Portfolio Assessment at TESC. If I were to assign a grade to certain other essential (cough) departments, I'd need to create a new mark somewhere below "F." It'd be called "Boil in oil and poke with sharp sticks," and would be only partial justice.

My office is a short distance away from the college.. about a ten minute drive in normal traffic. This probably had something to do with the "A+" service I received from some departments-- I had the luxury of going there on my lunch break. I'm at a loss to explain the general unresponsiveness of the Registrar's office, except that enrollment seems to have increased significantly while staffing has not. Either way, I've often wondered if students get the same level of service/disservice when there's no credible fear of their sudden appearance at somebody's desk.

 

Well, I'll comment on the humanities and social sciences part, anyway (I can't recollect why I came away with the impression that TESC was better in some business fields and Excelsior better in others, but maybe someone else can chime in here):

TESC's advantages:
- Offers nternal portfolio evaluation.
- Major available in actual field (e.g., "B.A., History"). At Excelsior, the major field for the humanities and social sciences is "Liberal Arts"; any further specialization is classified under the heading of "concentrations."
- It's a state-funded institution; Excelsior is private.

Excelsior's advantages:
- Awards credit for subject GREs; TESC awards none.
- Both the B.S. and B.A. are available; at Edison, someone majoring in the Natural Sciences and Mathematics would end up with a B.A. in Natural Sciences and Mathematics, someone majoring in computer science would end up with a B.A. in Computer Science (or a B.S. in Applied Sciences and Technology with a concentration in computer science), and so forth.

Both cost the same (very little) and hold the same standard of institutional accreditation (the highest available).


Cheers,

TH
Who did his Regents B.A. in Liberal Arts (concentrations in Literature and Psychology) in 1996,
using two subject GREs to get there.

 

Just wondering: comparing to Empire State College (www.esc.edu) ....

(emphasizing out of atate residents...)

 

My understanding is that TESC offers a Liberal Arts degree: BA with concentration in a variety of subjects. It does not offer a major in those subjects. TESC literature would confusingly refer to a "major area of study" in these subjects, but the official TESC BA guide, "Liberal Arts Degree", spells out the nature of the possible specializations on page 31.

They are:

A. "Area of Concentration"
B. "Area of Study"
C. "Liberal Studies Area"

Each of the choices includes 33 semester hours in one or more disciplines. The most concentrated option is B, where 33 hours are required in one subject.

Of the three options, a BA degree student may choose, A or B or C.

This organization in most material respects, mirrors that found in the COSC and Excelsior Liberal Arts bachelor degree programs. The main difference would be that COSC and Excelsior offer the choice of BA or BS, and TESC only offers a BA.

It is true that COSC degrees are designated "General Studies", while those at Excelsior and TESC are identified as "Liberal Arts", and that all three offer different
nomenclature to describe the same collection or concentration of credits, but it seems to me to be six of one and a half dozen of the other. You pays your money and you takes your choice. All may best be described as a BA with concentration. Of course, it would be possible to so organize the degree components to reflect those of a traditional major, but that holds for the lib arts programs at all three colleges.

In Business, TESC offers a named major, BS in Business Administration with specialization. Excelsior offers business degrees with several different named majors: BS General in Business; BS in Finance; BS in Accounting; BS in Marketing; BS in Human Resource Management; BS in International Business; BS Management Information Systems; BS Operations Management.

By "named major", I mean the degree diploma states, for example, "Bachelor of Science in Finance", and the degree transcript notation states the same.

A Concentration, or Area of Study,or Specialization, and on, would not appear on the diploma as (say), "Bachelor of Arts in History", but as "Bachelor of Arts" with
notation in the transcript identifying the degree as a BA where the concentration, or area of study, or specialization was in History.

Where this may affect degree marginal utility* is in candidate selection for some position in (say) computing, where the degree prerequisite is commonly advertised as a BSCS. You may have a BA with concentration in Computer Science, but it is not a BSCS. Now, if you have so organized the components of your degree to reflect the work commonly comprising a BS with major in Computer Science, you have every right to argue the degree is equivalent. That would be if you get the chance to argue the case, and your resume does not find the round file (waste basket) on the first HR screening.

Where your concentration falls well short of the work found in the average major in the particular subject, it may be difficult to get the prospective employer to see it your way, even if you do make interview.

Of the three assessment institutions, only one offers a named major in computing. That is Excelsior College's BS in Computer Information Systems (note in passing, that a BSCIS is not the same animal as a BSCS, used in the preceding example).

* The "marginal utility" of a diploma, refers to the *relative* positive effectiveness of a degree in helping getting you what you want, when all other factors are removed from the mix.

Lawrie Miller
http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks

 

Hello, Lawrie. I think that the misconception arises from assuming that other, more traditional, schools do not use this same approach. For example, at Purdue University the School of Consumer and Family Sciences offers a Financial Counseling & Planning major. The actual degree will indicate only Bachelor of Science awarded by the School of Consumer and Family Sciences. The transcript will indicate:

Bachelor of Science
(any honors/distinction)
Field of Study: Financial Counseling & Planning
(Completed Honors Program in)
Consumer and Family Sciences

This is how Purdue awards it's degrees, and I don't think that anyone would argue that the "Field of Study" is not really the same as a major, or that this is not truly a "BS in Financial Counseling & Planning." This is one example, but the same would hold true for something like a BS in CS, and I assume that different schools just have different ways of doing things. I think that people tend to get too caught up in the semantics without realizing that in academia it may just be a common way of referring to the same thing. TESC lists a major as an Area of Study, just as Purdue lists a major as a Field of Study. The only difference that I see is that Purdue doesn't really tell it's students that this is what will be listed on their transcript for their major, while TESC does. The TESC advisors refer to an Area of Study as a major, and, for example, refer to a BA in CS degree. I don't see a problem with listing it this way on a resume.

 

I did not have any trouble getting accepted for graduate school with my Regents (now Excelsior) degree.

 

Hi Gary,

I don't believe there is any misconception, nor do I think it mere semantics. The TESC BA requires the major area of study be 33 semester hours, COSC concentrations
must be 36 hours, and the Excelsior concentration, at least 30 semester hours. COSC makes a point in noting their degree major is General Studies with concentration.
My USNY/Regents transcript refers to a "Bachelor of Science in Liberal Arts", and then lists the concentration, yet my Business degree, which has a major, is listed as
a "Bachelor of Science in General Business". This notation is not accidental nor simply a matter of tradition. The question is whether the content and the quantity of credits comprising that concentration or major area of study, matches or exceed the requirements of a degree with major in that same subject. The problem would be in passing off a liberal arts degree that is not at least equivalent in terms of content in a subject, to a degree with major in the same subject.

As stated in a previous note, it is possible to so design a degree in Liberal Arts such that its content mirrors that of a degree with named major, and in such circumstances it can readily be argued the degrees are functionally equivalent. However, the concentration or major area of study in a generic liberal arts degree at COSC, Excelsior, or TESC, does not generally require the focus of a major.

You say TESC advisors refer to a "BA in CS". That in-house working shorthand is understandable, but precisely how is the degree title listed on the TESC diploma and
how is it listed in the TESC degree transcript? Further, how does that practice compare to the listing of the TESC BS in Business Administration, which is a degree with named major?

Again, it is not an argument of how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. The substantive issue is one candor in the evaluation of equivalence, in terms of the depth and breadth of the specialization within the degree.

 

Hi, Lawrie. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I still believe that this is just a matter of semantics. I provided a specific example of a traditional school that uses similar terminology to describe their majors. The TESC literature even refers to it as a "major area of study," so it's not just a spoken shorthand used by the staff.

As for the CS major area of study from TESC, I would agree that it is more flexible than most CS majors, and can be completed with less rigorous coursework than that of many, and probably most, CS majors from traditional schools. However, a 33 s.h. major (plus 6-10 s.h. for the corollary calculus requirement) is not out of line with what is required for other CS majors that I have seen. Bear in mind that a BA degree with a CS major often requires fewer science and math courses, and thus provides more flexibility, than a BS degree with a CS major from the same school. The biggest difference that I can see between TESC and most programs is that they don't require a certain number of upper-level credits within the major. It's obviously not a CSAB accredited program, but it doesn't have to meet those stringent requirements in order to be called a CS degree, or a degree in CS.

I'm not opposed to changing my mind if you can show that I'm mistaken. I still haven't decided whether my resume will read "BA in Computer Science" or "BA, Computer Science major." If it can be shown that it's somehow unethical or misleading to list my TESC degree this way, then I'll need to do it differently.

 

Hi Gary,

Your not being argumentative, you are simply articulating your position.


I provided a specific example of a traditional school that uses similar terminology to describe their majors.


That was a degree designated to be from a school representing a particular program discipline, thus the major discipline was implicit in the designation. Purdue diplomas,
as I remember it, list both the university and the school, don't they?


The TESC literature even refers to it as a "major area of study," so it's not just a spoken shorthand used by the staff.


The working shorthand referenced was your cite of the use of the term, "BA in CS". No one disputed the *use* of the term "major area of study", only what it means.

TESC produce four degree program planning handbooks, for four of the TESC degrees on offer: BSAST, BSBA, BSHS, and BA - the Liberal Arts degree. The guide titles are:

"Applied Science and Technology Degree"
"Business Degree"
"Human Services Degree"
"Liberal Arts Degree"

See http://www.tesc.edu/catalog/collegecatalog.php?section=prospective


The TESC BA degree is a Liberal Arts degree program as much as the is the Excelsior Liberal Arts degree program and the COSC General Studies program. Their common characteristics include a requirement for a broad exposure in the liberal arts, with the option of an area of concentration (major area of study) comprising about a quarter of degree credits.


I'm not opposed to changing my mind if you can show that I'm mistaken.


My concern would be learners committing to this degree in some areas within the sciences, believing it will have the same utility as a conventional science degree with major, then discovering it does not. Now, it may be they will have no problem in employment or in graduate admission to certain advanced programs (in, say, Physics,
Chemistry, or even Computer Science), but they may do, if the quantity and depth of the work is perceived as inadequate by decision makers.


I still haven't decided whether my resume will read "BA in Computer Science" or "BA, Computer Science major."


I didn't realize you were doing the TESC Liberal Arts BA degree with Computer Science area of concentration. I just used that as an example in my original post. No wonder you are concerned.


If it can be shown that it's somehow unethical or misleading to list my TESC degree this way, then I'll need to do it differently.


How you choose to list your degree is up to you. I certainly make no moral judgments. Again, my interest is that those choosing to do the TESC BA, or the Excelsior BA/BS, or the COSC BA/BS, liberal arts degrees, are made aware of potential pitfalls ( in some science subjects). My main focus here is the welfare of the punters doing the degree rather than employers or some greater moral good.

However you choose to list your degree, Gary, I am sure, overall, it will afford you great benefit. My comments here should not be construed as a criticism of the TESC BA or any other liberal arts degree.

Good luck

Lawrie Miller
USNY BS LA (Political Science)
Regents BS General Business
http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks

 

Hi again, Lawrie.

I do see the point that you're making. The flexibility of the TESC BA program can be seen as either a good thing, or a bad thing, depending upon your perspective. On one hand, it can be every bit the equal of any other "BA in CS" degree, so long as the student makes sure to model the elective coursework after a sound CS curriculum. On the other hand, if a student simply takes the required courses, and then fills the electives with a bunch of "easy" courses (if enough of these could be found which would qualify as CS courses), then it will be a weak degree compared to other "BA in CS" degrees. These degrees do place much more burden upon the student to ensure that the proper coursework is taken to prepare them for graduate school or work in the field, compared to most degrees from traditional schools. However, in terms of pure percentage of credit in the major, it doesn't seem to be any different than a traditional major. When it comes down to it, it seems that most BA degrees (and many BS degrees) from traditional US universities are really "liberal arts" degrees, even some that are from a "school of science," though generally these will have more stringent science and math requirements, in addition to more specific major coursework.

I suppose that all of this really becomes a matter of semantics after all. In all reality you can list a degree however you like on a resume, so long as you aren't being directly untruthful, and graduate schools as well as employers are going to evaluate you based upon your actual coursework and knowledge level. I'm confident that I can back up saying I have a "BA in CS," since both my transcript and my knowledge level will support my claim. It doesn't seem to me that an employer or graduate school would expect a major to be printed on a diploma in order to consider it valid.

I'm getting off track, so I'll stop rambling now.

BTW, I will be completing both CS and Psychology majors at TESC. If all goes well, my BA will be awarded on May 1st. I just need to finish up a correspondence course and take 4 exams.

 

Hi Gary,

I think there are substantive differences between the types of degrees. The issue is not what is on the diploma (though that may be an indicator), but what is in the
degree. Below, is the required content of the Touro University BSCS degree. While the TESC BA degree *requires* 33 semester hours in Computer Science for award of the CS concentration (major area of study), the Touro BSCS *requires* 76 semester hours in computer science credit. That is two and a third times as much credit is Computer Science, and we have not even addressed issues of level of required content. I think it reasonable and proper to classify these degrees differently. One, the TESC BA, is a Liberal Arts degree with a CS concentration, and the other is a BS degree with a Major in CS.


BTW, I will be completing both CS and Psychology majors at TESC. If all goes well, my BA will be awarded on May 1st. I just need to finish up a correspondence course and take 4 exams.


Again, good luck, Gary, and I am confident both the degree and the concentrations will serve you well.


TOURO UNIVERSITY BS COMPUTER SCIENCE

General Education Lower Division Core Courses

ENG 101 English Composition I 4 cr.
ENG 102 English Composition II 4 cr.
MAT 101 College Mathematics 4 cr.
MAT 201 Basic Statistics 4 cr.
ECO 202 Macroeconomics 4 cr.
ART 101 Art History 4 cr.
HIS 101 Modern World History 4 cr.
PHI 201 Western Philosophy 4 cr.
POL 201 Global Politics in the Modern World 4 cr.
PSY 101 Foundations of Psychology 4 cr.
SOC 201 Foundations of Sociology 4 cr.
Total General Education Lower Division Core Courses 44 cr.

Computer Science Lower Division Core Courses

MAT 202 Mathematics for Computer Sciences 4 cr.
CSC 101 Introduction to Computers 4 cr.
CSC 102 Introduction to Programming 4 cr.
CSC 201 Computer Methodology 4 cr.

Total Computer Science Lower Division Core Courses 16 cr.


Upper Division Required courses -- 60 credits

Computer Science Upper Division Core Courses
CSC 301 Intermediate Programming 4 cr.
CSC 302 Data Base Concepts and Design 4 cr.
CSC 303 Data Structures I 4 cr.
CSC 304 Data Structures II 4 cr.
CSC 311 Advanced Programming 4 cr.
CSC 312 Operating Systems 4 cr.
CSC 313 Computer Architecture 4 cr.
CSC 314 Programming Languages 4 cr.
CSC 401 Advanced Topics in Programming 4 cr.
CSC 402 UNIX Operating Systems 4 cr.
CSC 403 Object Oriented Programming I 4 cr.
CSC 404 Client Server Languages 4 cr.
CSC 411 Local Area Networks 4 cr.
CSC 413 Object Oriented Programming II 4 cr.
CSC 421 Programming Web Servers 4 cr.

Total Upper Division Core Courses 60 cr.


Bachelor of Science in Computer Science Summary

General Education Lower Division Core Courses 44 cr.

Computer Science Lower Division Core Courses 16 cr.
Upper Division Core Courses 60 cr.

Total Credits in Bachelor of Science in Computer Science 120 cr.

 

Hi again, Lawrie.

The Touro CS major really doesn't seem to be typical; I think that you've chosen an extreme example. I suspect that this is partially due to Touro assigning a value of 4 s.h. to many courses which are typically worth 3 s.h. at other schools. I have no evidence whatsoever for this, but it seems that they may be "padding" the credit value of their courses, though they probably do not have more content than courses with similar titles at other universities. As I said, I really have no basis for saying this other than a hunch, and the program does still seem sound (and quicker to complete from scratch, since there are fewer courses overall). Even if all of the 4 credit courses were counted as 3 credits, it would still have 57 s.h. of CS courses, so I'm not trying to say that it's light on the CS end. It's also a BS in CS program rather than a BA in CS program, so it's not exactly a fair comparison anyway.

CAC/ABET (formerly CSAB) accreditation seems to be the premiere/only accreditator specifically aimed at undergrad CS programs (though I do notice some highly ranked CS programs that are not listed). Taking a pseudo-random sample (I tried to pick schools I'd heard of, and I skipped them if I didn't find the info within a couple of minutes or if they didn't seem to offer a BA program) of 3 CAC/ABET accredited schools, I found the following:

UC Berkeley - appears to be 39 s.h. of CS coursework for the BA in CS.

George Washington University - 33 s.h. of CS coursework for the "Bachelor of Arts Program in Computer Science". I find this program interesting since it is described similarly to the TESC program.

Southwest Texas State University - 37 s.h. of CS coursework for the BA in CS.

It's interesting to note that while the BS programs from these schools are CAC/ABET accredited, it is unclear whether the BA degrees have the same distinction, though I suspect that they may not. It is also notable that in each case the corresponding BS program from the same school requires more CS credits than the BA program.

So, my conclusion, based upon a very small sample, is that a BS in CS degree seems to be stronger when it comes to CS than a BA in CS degree. I also conclude that the CS major area of study from TESC is pretty much at the bottom end of BA in CS degrees as far as the number of CS courses required, and the specificity of those courses. However, it still doesn't seem entirely out of line with what other schools are offering, and it does seem consistent to refer to the degree as a "BA in CS," or a "BA, CS major," bearing in mind that a BA in CS is generally not as strong as a BS in CS.

I think that what it comes down to is that there is just a huge range of requirements for majors between various schools. To suppose an extreme, hypothetical example: just because one school may offer a 90 s.h. major in a subject, with all coursework in the major specified, does not mean that another school's 35 s.h. major in the same subject, with 20 s.h. of that being elective courses, is not really a major. I'm guessing that we will probably just have to agree to disagree on this topic.