Empire State College VS. Excelsior

In a battle to the death!!!

My original plan was to complete a double major with Excelsior in Psychology and Sociology. Lately, however, I've been reconsidering the SUNY/ESC route, which includes:

1. A more customized (and career-focused) area of study and concentration as opposed to a major.

2. Online classes as opposed to credit-by-examination.

3. Name recognition (under the SUNY umbrella- primarily a brick-and-mortar collection of colleges) as opposed to obscurity.

I'm somewhat torn. With ESC, their portfolio assessment isn't very expensive and, I predict, may leave me with only 1 year of courses to take before I can graduate- the cost of which will be almost entirely covered by the HOPE tax credit even if I can't get financial aid.

However, the extra workload of having actual classes on a full-time schedule rather than the independent nature of doing credit-by-examination will lead to a loss of income for the time. This route will be much more demanding than through Excelsior, however, potentially more enjoyable. It would be more of a collegiate experience, as I would get to do research and write papers instead of just taking a bunch of multiple-choice tests.

Of course, I can not discount the value of having an online degree from a B&M that is somewhat local to me rather than a C&M, or "virtual" college, as Excelsior calls them self.

What I'm asking for here is a collection of opinions and anecdotes on this topic. Obviously, each answer will be highly subjective- and that's exactly what I'm looking for.

What were your experiences with either or both schools? Is ESC as rigorous as they claim their courses are? What has been your history with how your degree from either or both have been received by employers? Any information you can give me about ESCs portfolio assessment?

Thanks in advance.

 

A few years ago I was considering Empire State College, but after googling I found a lot of people were not happy with it for various reasons. That's actually how I found this place.

Of course, there were a lot of people that were very happy with it. The bad reviews just mentioned things I didn't think I would like.

Ultimately I decided on Peru. At $185 credit it's affordable too. I've been happy with it, but I have 1.5 years left to find a 120 hour internship which is difficult in my area.

 

I cannot speak specifically to the ESC/Excelsior question, but I do have some experience in completing a portfolio for prior learning credit.

My experience and that of many others I know who have gone the portfolio route at other institutions is that you will not receive as much credit for prior learning through the portfolio as you think you will intially.

If you are fortunate enough to get all of the credit you think you will it may not apply to the degree requirements where you think it will or where you need the credits. I received about 2/3 of what I thought I would, but about half of that was applied to electives where I did not need the credits.

I am not trying to discourage you by any means, just give you a heads up to be conservative in your estimation of portfolio credits if it plays a major role in your decision criteria.

With all of that being said, my personal choice would be ESC for the reasons you mentioned above.

 

I considered ESC for a while for my second BA - I think they are great: cheap tuition (same price for out-of-state students), self-designed concentration and a name and reputation that is WAY better than Excelsior.

But I don't like the bizarre name of their degrees. For example, you don't get a "BA in Communications" but a "BA in Cultural Studies with a concentration in Communications". Not a "BA in Marketing" but a "BA in Business, Management and Economy with a concentration in Marketing". And so on.

But other than that, if you have the time, go with SUNY.

 

That's basically what it boils down to. I have more important goals that I am working towards- it's just a question of whether I can eat my cake too. This and that and this and that AND college... we'll see.

Their majors/concencentrations don't bother me. I actually really like their options and the classes seem a lot more real-world focused than most other programs.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. If/when I enroll, I will have already completed my AA (=2 years), and would not be in need of credits in a specific area, rather, a bunch of filler credits; most or all of my concentration would be completed through ESC classes (=1 year). My hope for the PLA is to get 30 credits (=1 year). I should be able to accomplish this due to my fluency in American Sign Language and completion of interpreter certification (which usually takes 2 or 4 years of college classes- I did this by studying and practicing on my own).

Otherwise, I am prepared for a conservative award of credit... I may have to take another CLEP or two, OR take the ATFL oral exams, OR take a GRE subject test to get to where I want to with ESC.

 

Is there a minimum residency requirement at ESC?

What I liked about Excelsior was that I could take 100% of the courses anywhere so I took courses at around a dozen colleges including U of Redlands, UC Berkeley, CSUDH, Lowell University, and two UK universities.

If you are aiming for a graduate degree then I would suggest taking the lowest cost and most convenient BS available. As pointed out numerous times the source of your degrees become less relevant as your career progresses. With my Excelsior degree I was accepted by two grad programs and no employer has ever questioned it.

 

I graduated from ESC in 2007 with my BS in Business Management. The school is AWESOME!!! I cannot say enough good things about it. The entire experience was incredible. Everything was individualized as far as your classes and degree program, and the school is with you every step of the way.

The classes are pretty rigorous and are not for the weak at heart to be honest, but its worth it, trust me. The SUNY name speaks volumes for itself, and they have a significant b&m presence throuout NY state. I found my SUNY Empire State degree is highly respected and well-known in many professional and social function. If recognition is important, go with SUNY ESC.

 

This is good, though I would add one small caveat in my case. I did something a little bit similar in my program at COSC, and had credits from a number of sources (e.g., the cost of a particular psych course from U Alaska
was half the cost of a similar course at COSC!). When I applied for further studies, however, I was asked for transcripts not only from COSC, but from all of the institutions from which I'd earned credits. Still, a small price to pay for a significant cost benefit at the time.

Peace,

Matt

 

Both CSUDH and ERAU (which I applied for ans was acepted at the same time) never asked for transcripts. My Excelsior transcript did list source, course, credit, grade, and date. So supplying transcripts probably varies with instition or with program. Or maybe it is to verify prerequisite courses.
My Excelsior transcript did list source, course, credit, grade, and date.

 

Cymba, could you tell a little bit more about your experience with ESC?

I've always been curious with this college, because they let you design your own concentration (basically a major with another name).

How this process work? Can you really design anything? Do you decide the name of the concentration? How do you complete subjects if they don't have the course online (I know there is a choice for independent study but I'm not sure how this works there).

If you could tell us a little bit more about your experience with more depth I would appreciate.

 

Info on Empire State College

I'm currently going to ESC and I like it. Let me cover some quick points for you:

32 credits of residency required (classes u have to take from them), seems higher than normal 30, but it's actually lower since almost all their classes are 4 credits. So it works out to be 8 classes instead of 10 (with 3 credit courses). Same principal applies to their seemingly higher 128 credit degree programs (with the exception of most transfer credits (and testing) being only 3 credits so you need a little more of them).

They take most all exams and ACE-approved stuff up to the residency requirement, so you can test or portfolio out of 96 credits.

You can design your own degree around your own concentrations - seems complicated to meet all the gen-ed requirements, 45 UL credits, 24 UL in major, etc., but the tool they give you makes it pretty easy. It pulls in all your various credits and you just plug them into the tool. You can choose how you "meet" each of the various degree requirements and write up a justification for it. Also sounds like a ton of upper-level, but I've found MANY of the liberal arts classes can be taken for upper or lower level credit (more research involved, more in-depth analysis, a few more papers - voila - UL credit).

Can you design your own concentration? I guess you could if you can justify it, and come up with other school examples of it - not sure. As for how you take classes, you can take any ESC online or on-campus class, or any SUNY Learning network class, or do cross-registration, or do it via contract learning.

Classes - I'm taking 4 right now, for 16 credits, and working full time, and have a family of kids. I could probably squeeze in another class if I wanted to. Taking 16 credits is also the best deal, since it's the same cost from 12-16 credits. My per credit cost is $162 per. Not as low as someplaces (like UofWy at just over $100/per - and you can test out up to residency limit as well), but pretty darn good too.

Current 4 classes: 1 class is through "contract" learning, and the other are traditional online through the Angel portal. The contract learning is my personal favorite - it is not a self designed contract (which is an option), but I just picked an existing contract. Basically it's just a letter that tells me what kind of research I have to do, and how many papers I have to hand in on the topic. I like the independance of it (and NO discussion forums!!). I'll do more of these next term.

The online classes are okay too - a lot of reading and writing for this school! There is usually a paper due at least every other week (and sometimes every week) that averages 4-7 pages double-spaced in length. You get the hang of it - not hard once you get in the flow.

The instructors vary - I would go to ratemyprofessors.com and follow the advice. Some are really picky with feedback and tear you apart with things like typos, or citation formats, even if you got the material principals correct. I have 2 instructors that are awesome though - normal Ph.D's in the SUNY school system. The other 2 rate just okay - 1 is almost non-existant except for getting graded papers. I'm okay with that -some may not be.

Overall, I like the 8 classes of residency, which means I can finish in 2 terms. I like the SUNY degree, which I've seen cases where it was accepted at top tier grad schools (NYU, Columbia, etc - to find examples of this, google "B.S. Empire State" or "B.A. Empire State" - after you get past the first results FROM empire state, you should find faculty listings at other schools, and you can see what grad schools they went to).

Let me know if you'd like more info.

 

Thanks for the info!

I have one more question: I now that you have to take 4 credits in degree plan at ESC. How does that work? Do you have to take this before you take any other classes? Or can you take concurrently with other classes.

Because you said you could complete everything in two terms, but if you have to take those credits before that would be three terms, I think.

And just for curiosity's sake: can you tell us what is your Area of Study and concentration?

Thanks a lot again - SUNY seems a really good deal but it's rarely talked about it here.

 

yes - you have to take 4 credits, 2 of which have to be the "planning and finalizing your degree" class, and then 1 other 2 credit class such as reflective learning, proposal writing, or similar.

You got to the crux of the issue - the planning and finalizing class is the class where you build your degree plan and write the justification. This is where you basically decide which classes you'll use to make your degree. If you don't have this class, what classes do you enroll in?

I have yet to take the class, and will be taking it in my second, and hopefully final, semester. I have done a lot of reading of all the requirements, looked at sample degree plans, and decided on my own how I would get there. I have already planned out, for the most part, my degree. I had to do this because I want to make sure I take the right classes next semester. If I had to do this again, I would have taken this class immediately, but I think it'll work out anyway (of course I won't know until I submit the plan and get a response!)

The 4 credits for degree planning count toward the 32 residency, so you should be able to do two semesters at 16 credits each.

My degree is going to be in computer science or computer information systems. I'm pretty close to both - but it will depend on which classes I take in second term.

Let me know if this helps. Feel free to ask for more.

TG.

 

Odd degree names

I know this thread is old but I find it interesting that someone else found ESC's degree names a turn off. I mean instead of a B.S. in Information Technology, they have B.S. in Science, Mathematics, and Technology with a concentration in Information Technology. Seriously. I thought an HR manager would look at that degree in one's resume and wouldn't really know what the degree is about right away. Concentration in IT? what do you mean? Is the Degree in Science and Math and they just took a few classes in IT? If you think an HR or a hiring manager would go to ESC's website and find out more about your degree, you'd be dead wrong.

Needless to say, when I was deciding between Excelsior and ESC I went with Excelsior. The odd degree names is of course not my only reason for choosing Excelsior but it played a part. Also, I admit that SUNY has a better name recognition. But really, I don't think SUNY name recognition shines all that brightly outside of New York State. For example, I don't think an HR manager somewhere in Texas or Utah looking at resumes would care a great deal between ESC and Excelsior.

Anyway, for anyone else looking at this thread and deciding between these two schools. I suggest to look at both colleges' curriculum and see which one you like better. For me, I like Excelsior's IT curriculum better. It is much more solid and well rounded than ESC. Excelsior also has more choices as far as real IT concentration such as cybersecurity.