Outsourcing online adjuncts to other countries

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by MichaelOliver, Dec 5, 2009.

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  1. Do you think it will be possible for online universities to begin to outsource online adjunct positions to countries such as India and China? It was brought up in passing on this BB that this is a likely scenario. Technologically speaking, there is nothing to stop this practice.

    For example, online university "ABC" discovers that it can hire a PhD in India to facilitate an online class and do so for much less money than would be required for a domestic teacher. This would be similar to the way American companies outsource labor to less developed companies to avoid the high costs of labor in the US. Ever called tech support for your HP computer?

    I contacted the Higher Learning Commission about this issue and their reply indicated that they had never considered the possibility. I found that revelation rather disturbing. Either the idea is so ludicrous that they never considered it or maybe it's an real issue they are not quite on top of. Either way, it doesn't appear at this time that they would move to stop it.

    The only thing I can foresee that would ameliorate this danger is the issue of public perception. It might not look good to have your education farmed out to the lowest bidder.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2009
  2. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Can never predict the future but I know there are some schools that require US residence.
     
  3. ITJD

    ITJD Guest

    This is always possible.

    However:

    1. Accreditation agencies require a certain number of full-time faculty and part-time faculty at any school seeking their blessing. The amount varies between the different regional and professional accrediting agencies.

    2. Degrees earned in other countries are not automatically recognized as equivalent to degrees earned in this country.

    An evaluation firm needs to be involved and the degree needs to be qualified as equivalent to a degree earned by a regionally accredited institution in the US by a RA University before credentials earned offshore can be used here to assist the accreditation situation.

    In other words, the teaching market is somewhat protected due to the fractious nature of education globally.

    3. Regardless of level of education earned offshore, unless you come from the best schools in those countries, chances are you're perceived as having a better education if you come from the US and have a US RA degree. I know from working with consultants in India that Boston University is considered in very high regard, where to me it's a T3 behind Harvard, MIT, Tufts, BC and many others even within the area.

    So I wouldn't worry about it just yet. But this sort of question furthers my other arguments. If you take the time to find the right schools that do blended learning and spend the time to get a solid RA degree or good PhD from a reputable school, you'll be less affected by this.

    Not to mention, (personal opinion) that anyone adjuncting with just a BA or BS isn't doing themselves any favors at all. That's the real danger to adjuncts in the near term. In my market adjuncts with Masters level educations are being let go in favor of PhDs willing to adjunct and at least two states don't allow BA/BS adjuncting anymore.
     
  4. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Yes, it will happen. I've been mentioning outsourced / off shored professors for awhile here and in the classroom...
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    There are larger schools that do their foreign credential evaluation in house, or that do some in house and farm out others if they don't have specific expertise. There's no reason a school that specifically wanted to hire Indian professors couldn't simply have a policy where they only hire faculty who have a PhD from a university there that's listed in the Commonwealth Annual Yearbook or something like that.

    -=Steve=-
     
  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    It probably also depends on the discipline. For example, in the Criminal Justice field, most colleges and universities require online adjuncts to have extensive experience in the field. Can you imagine hiring Chinese policemen with Masters degrees in communist China to teach American students about American law enforcement practices? Other disciplines are probably easier to outsource, such as math.
     
  7. IMO Fortunately, that day is still in the future; at least for the most reputable schools. This is especially true for FP online schools, most of whom are struggling with public perception as it is. It would be detrimental to the fragile public image of an online school to be known as the institution who farms out teaching jobs to the lowest bidder.

    American ethnocentrism will affect this same public perception as well. Even though off-shore professors might potentially be equally or even more qualified than domestic professors, the public perception would the opposite.

    You are probably right, academic outsourcing may very well happen, but this event is still in the future. Online education will have to gain much more academic clout than it currently has before we will see an off-shore professor teaching American students at a RA school. Now at the more cheesy schools, all bets are off.
     
  8. Now that's just funny!
    Good point there. I could see this happening with disciplines such as math, where the public prejudice leans in their favor.
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    "What do you mean you don't want an Indian math professor? They invented the zero!"

    -=Steve=-
     
  10. OK, OK. India can play too. :)
     
  11. ITJD, you are supplying thoughtful and eloquent posts and they are a great benefit to us all; thank you. Judging from what you say, you are obviously a high ranking member of your organization. Are you involved in consulting, education or ...? Pardon my nosiness.
     
  12. Don't you think this is more likely to happen with the non RA schools?
     
  13. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Don't know...if my crystal ball was working I would be buying a lottery ticket instead of posting here :p
     
  14. If you get it working, let me know. I've always needed one of those things; would have made less mistakes in the past.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2009
  15. ITJD

    ITJD Guest

    You can be nosy, it's fine and part of human nature.

    I'm not particularly high-ranking in my organization but I've been very, very fortunate to have good mentors everywhere I've ever been and I work for a company where there's very little in the way of roadblocks preventing discussions between a CIO say and a mid-level manager. My responsibilities would place me as a senior manager in some companies and a director in others.

    My function is service delivery and management of service catalogs (IT support) at present. I've also run my own IT consultancy and as a result of operating all over the IT market, I've learned a lot about and worked with quite a few outsourcing firms and have more than a few contacts in India. I benefit greatly* from having family holding tenure in academia at T2 research schools who have gone to T1 research schools and my wife is a professional adjunct. (*.at least as far as this forum goes and my own academic pursuits are concerned).

    On topic though, I think we do need to concern ourselves with the eventual outsource of adjuncting positions at any school that holds an online component and the larger the component the larger the problem at that school. Saying that though, you have to look at the other side of things. Academia moves deliberately at times (and that's a nice way of saying glacially) :) and the same biases that exist between B&M and Online schools today will have to be overcome between online schools and outsourced online schools.

    To me, the larger threat to the American academy isn't outsourcing adjuncting, it's the fact that the Indian State Department is actively wooing Harvard, MIT, Yale, Columbia and BU amongst others, to open campuses in their countries with American standards. This needs to be regulated and prohibited to some degree if America is to retain their only remaining advantage, that of their top level educational system at the collegiate level.

    However, I admit to not knowing much of the movement I mentioned at this point and I'm still figuring out if I need to be paranoid or not. :)

    Thanks for the compliment.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2009
  16. Woah, didn't know about that one. That WOULD cause a very large problem for more than just adjuncts.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    So wait, you're calling for the U.S. government to move to curb the ability of American universities to open branch campuses in other countries? I guess I don't see why you'd want this. If other countries have a better educated population, that means the total economic pie is bigger, it doesn't mean that their share of an unchanging pie is larger at the expense of ours. Or, put another way, the more good schools in India the better, because the better off they get economically, the better a market they become for American products and services.

    -=Steve=-
     
  18. Selfishly speaking, better educated foreign populations could possibly mean more competition for the online teaching jobs in the US. On the other hand, who's to say that new, international campuses wouldn't, in turn, open more online teaching opportunities as well? I would assume that these new university campuses in other countries would also offer online degrees. So more jobs, not less jobs, might be the result result. It's possible that the whole thing might be, to borrow a term from Blackjack, a "push".
     
  19. ITJD

    ITJD Guest

    The above makes sense from a business theory perspective.

    Now factor in Chinese products are cheaper and proximal.
    Now factor in that Japanese products are cheaper and proximal.
    Now factor in that most American Technology companies are in India.

    What are we producing exactly that they need aside from educations?

    Please consider this an open invitation to elaborate as I feel like I can learn something here. (seriously)
     
  20. The statistics on the US trade deficit support your position.
     

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