Reasons for Pursuing Unaccredited Degrees

Much discussion has perhaps taken place on this board as to the reason people pursue unaccredited degrees. In light of a post a few days ago, I wanted to revisit the subject. I hope my learned compatriots will be tolerant of my perspective.

Let me be clear that I am not speaking of individuals who simply buy a worthless piece of paper from diploma mills. Rather, I am referring to individuals who pursue legitimate degrees (and I know this is a subjective term) from legitimate, but unaccredited (by a DOE or CHEA recognized accreditor) school.

First, I would like to suggest that cost is one factor. By and large, with some exception, unaccredited schools cost less to "attend." Now, we can pontificate about the long term costs that come with being embarrased or terminated when an employer discovers the degree is unaccredited. This may be the case. I would still argue that the TUITION costs less at unaccredited schools. For some individuals, this is a remarkable incentive.

This becomes particularly important at the doctoral level where a good regionally accredited program can cost upwards of $500 per credit. I've seen several commentaries by individuals who are challenged by this. "I want to pursue a doctoral program," they say, "But I can't afford it." For those with the financial ability to pay the $500 per credit, it is easy to say, "If it's worthwhile, then it costs." Whatever we may say about this doesn't change the fact that cost is a factor to many people.

Second, I believe many individuals pursue unaccredited degrees because of time constraints. Let's face it, some people want to earn a degree but don't want to spend several years doing it. While I am not suggesting that this is a good thing, unaccredited schools often allow individuals to "quickly" earn degrees.

I read in John Bear's guide of someone who was able to earn a Bachelors degree with just a few hours of testing - GRE subject tests, CLEP etc. Of course, the reference was to a regionally accredited institution. Many people don't even know such options exist at RA institutions. Unaccredited schools advertise how quickly one can earn a degree.

Third, a number of people opt for unaccredited schools because (especially at the undergraduate level) they simply don't understand the implications. This would probably not hold true at the masters or doctoral level where a person is more likely to better understand issues of accreditation.

Finally, let me say this: I am not advocating that individuals attend unaccredited schools. I am asking members of this board to address the three reasons I've advanced. I'm particularly interested in your comments on the matter of cost. Shall we in the interest of insisting that individuals pursue only accredited degrees take the position that doctoral studies are only for those with the financial capacity to afford it?

Your comments are most welcome.

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David F

 

I find this obsession with accreditation interesting... quality is irrelevant but RA (which incidently is process not outcome oriented) is everything.

So very strange.

 

The cost factor is very important. If I were to look at Capella now as opposed to 4 years ago I am not sure I would spend the money. Maybe I would spend the time necessary making the 45 min drive to Birmigham at UAB and earn a brick and mortar degree and save around 20,000 dollars. So I am sure that money plays a large part in the choosing-----but the time value of money must be considered as well as the expections of what the degree will do.

I have had my PhD approximately 2 years and I have enjoyed the utility of the degree. The HS is not as powerful as a Psy would have been but all in all in another 2 years the monetary payback will be complete. So, earning the difference in 4 years is not bad and by the time I retire the difference should be significant.



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Howard Rodgers

 

Shall we in the interest of insisting that individuals pursue only accredited degrees take the position that doctoral studies are only for those with the financial capacity to afford it?

Your comments are most welcome.

[/B][/QUOTE]All of my degrees, except for my AA are from state licensed universities. I've never been questioned as to their validity or acceptability, ever, and I work in management where everyone is college educated. It's what you're comfortable with and what works for you. 100 years from now who's going to care I held a degree from a state licensed school? I really don't think spirits in the nether-world will snicker behind my back.."oh, he's the guy who had the unaccredited degree!" "Jumpin jehozifet! How'd he get in here? Only spirts with RA degrees are somebody who's worth something."
If you're comfortable with who you are, why care what others think? Whatever..late


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Yeah, so why do it again?

I've heard the story over and over that unaccredited degrees are cheaper, but without any facts. You've told us how RA degrees are expensive, but nothing about how little the unaccredited degree costs. Be specific. What was the degree? How much did it cost? What is the institution? Without this information for concrete comparison, you're just blowing more smoke.

Regarding the quickness of the degrees...how quick is it? What degree are you talking about? What is the institution?

BTW, the quick BA-in-4-weeks method that you alluded to refers to learing demonstrated by standardized examination. What is the assessment method for the quick unaccredited degree? What is the degree? What is the institution?

Give us this information, or else there is nothing to talk about except, as Levicoff might ask, what kind of cheese do you want?

 

For distance learning doctoral study in the US (RA) one generally pays an exhorbitant fee per credit hour or in a lot of cases, a quarterly tuition of around $3500 regardless of how many or how few courses are taken. Some schools operate on trimesters and charge around $5000 per trimester. There is no provision for part time study because the tuition rate is not lower if you take only one course at a time. If you take longer to complete the degree program then you simply pay full tuition longer. It is true that in many cases once the coursework is completed and the dissertation proposal defended and accepted, the quarterly fee drops by 10% - 15%. Still not a good deal for part time doctoral study. The cost can end up being $35-$40K (and sometimes more counting residencies and books) and that is outrageous.

I enrolled in Capella with the intention of completing my doctorate in education in 2 1/2 years full time. However, on the second day of classes, I received a career offer that would have prevented full time doctoral study and would have necessitated a quarter or summer off for several years. I had to make a choice. So I withdrew from the Capella program -- I simply could not afford to extend the outrageous quarterly tuition to 4 or 5 years of part time study.

I am rethinking the Australian DL doctoral programs. The cost of 4-5 years part time PLUS travel and accomodation expenses to go to OZ TWICE (with my husband) still amount to far less than a US RA doctorate. With that financial incentive, why would anyone even consider paying through the nose for a US RA doctorate? Doesn't make sense.

Perhaps now that more DL doctoral programs are available internationally at far lower cost and more and more of the DL graduate market is going international, the US RA schools will get a clue and reduce costs to bring more students into the programs. But then again, probably not -- after all they have a good game going and many people just do not realize there are better options available.

Leslie *waiting till summer or fall to begin doctoral study*

 

Hi, defii, this is a perennial subject around here, one that's interesting to me. My thoughts:

I'm assuming that you don't mean non-US degrees with the local equivalent of RA. So that would pretty much mean state the CA-approved degrees and their ilk.

Is it even possible for such a degree to be legitimate? How is 'legitimacy' defined?

Probably, in some cases.

Several people on this board have opined that non-accredited degrees make more sense on the doctoral level than on the bachelors level. I'm not sure that I agree. In fact, I suspect that the opposite is true. Often a bachelors degree, at least in a non-technical subject, is a fungible commodity. Do you have a bachelors? If so, check the box. But Ph.D.s are individuals. Everyone had a different dissertation topic, studied with different people and so on. Anyone being hired on the basis of a doctorate is being hired for a responsible position and will be examined closely. There will be no 'check the box' here. They will look closely at your degree.

But unless you learn the expected material to the expected standard, have you really "earned a degree" at all?

I am all for credit by examination and portfolio **IF** the examination process is credible. That might make it possible to earn a degree very quickly **IF** you already are well prepared. But if you aren't, it will take quite some time to learn the material and to do the expected work.

Personally, I think that degrees by examination are sometimes oversold. They take considerable time and effort to accomplish, and involve far more than the mechanics of taking the exams. When it becomes clear that a student earning a B.S. in math will *still* have to learn calculus, differential equations, abstract algebra, advanced analysis and so on, to an acceptable standard, and that it can't be accomplished by skimming Cliffs Notes some afternoon, people want a quicker (read: easier) alternative.

That's where degree mills come in with their "life experience" degrees.

You would think. But I suspect that doctorates comprise a much larger percentage of the degrees granted by non-accredited schools than accredited ones. Only about 20% of RA schools even offer a significant number of doctoral programs. And since most of the degrees that even those schools grant are bachelors and masters degrees, doctorates are probably less than 5% of all RA degrees granted (far less if you factor in associates degrees). But I wouldn't be surprised if they were at least half of all non-accredited degrees.

I think that vanity accounts for a lot of it. People want a **title**, and a doctorate is easier to get than a knighthood.

Many students that study full-time on-campus are supported by grants and assistantships. They are actually paid (marginally) to earn their doctorate. That's pretty inexpensive. I've always kind of wondered why so many people on Degreeinfo are interested in doctorates, but so few are willing to consider studying on campus.

Personally, I am skeptical of non-accredited doctoral degrees. My first major was biology. I simply can't imagine anyone with a non-accredited degree in a science getting academic employment or being considered for work at a biotech firm like Genentech. Won't happen.

I later earned a degree in philosophy and religion. Given the highly impacted job outlook for Ph.D.s in philosophy, I'd say that the chances of a non-accredited graduate finding an academic position is almost zero.

You would have to know someone or smething, because the degree itself won't sell you.

A non-accredited degree arguably might work as a writing credential or something. But it would serve more to discredit than promote you among professional colleagues. It might only serve to label you as a flake. The general public might be impressed though (Men are from Mars...)

So I'm still not exactly sure what the point of a non-accredited doctorate is. Sure, it's cheaper. (Assuming that you don't have an assistantship.) But what will it *do* for you?

I see non-accredited schools primarily as niche players. They work best where they serve a community that is predisposed to accept their degrees, or in cases where there are alternative measures of professional legitimacy such as licensing examinations. Bob Jones among Southern fundamentalists. Dharma Realm among California Buddhists. SF Law to get you past the CA bar exam. Some of the non-accredited theological schools to get you ordination in the churches that run them. Stuff like that.

 

This seems a good time and place to share a letter I got a few months ago. I can't say I get such letters with great regularity, but there are probably five to ten a year.
-------------------------------------------
Dear Dr. Bear

I want to share my very frustrating story with you, to see if you can offer any help or advice. I bought your book in 1986, and made use of the degree consulting service you established in 1987. After much thought and study, I selected Columbia Pacific University for my MS., and then my Ph.D. I was extremely pleased with the program; I learned a lot; and, most importantly, I took and passed my California MFCC (Marriage, Family, Child Counseling) exams in 1993, and established a practice as a marriage counselor. At age 47, I would have said I was set for life.

My beloved wife died in a tragic accident in February, 1996. I shall not go into any details.

We now fast forward four years. At the NEPA (New England Psychological Association) regional conference, I re-met a wonderful woman, a friend in undergraduate years, and a spark was kindled. It has been a gloriously enriching relationship, hampered only by the 3,000 miles between our homes.

She is long established in (east coast state): home, children from an earlier marriage, aged parents, pets, excellent job, friends, the whole nine yards. And I, here in California, have nothing to tie me down. Nothing, that is, but a California license.

Yes, yes, yes, I know you are always saying, "Make sure any degree will meet your current and predictable needs." Well my degree did. Current and predictable needs.

But not all predictions come true. The odds of my marriage unexpectedly ending, then falling wonderfully, romantically, sensibly in love with a woman at the other end of the country, were astronomically high. And they have come true.

I cannot become licensed in my profession in her state. Lord knows, I have explored every pathway, nook, and cranny, even retained legal advice. It will not happen.

And so we lapse into "Dear Abby" mode. Shall I abandon my career and move east? Shall I demand that my intended abandon home and job she loves, and move herself, children, parents, and pets west? (Answer: I cannot.)

Of course I should be able to find work in the helping professions, but it would not be doing what I have been trained to do, and do well. Career coach. Psychometrist. Tutor. I've got a long list. Of course I could consider going back for a regionally accredited Master's, perhaps even Doctorate, but I am 57, and I need to earn a living. And the "little gray cells" are not what they once were, Monsieur Poirot.

Of course I do not, I cannot blame you for any of this. You told me about both accredited and approved programs, and the merits and potential demerits of each. I went into this with eyes wide open.

And now, and now. I think I know all my options now, and none of them is wonderful. I write, both to share my dilemma, and in the hope that there may be something, something, something I may have overlooked. (Note: relgious or pastoral counseling is not appropriate; not my cup of communion wine.)

This is not the end of the world for me. I know that. I genuinely believe I would be happy with my beloved if I ended up driving the school bus or cleaning bedpans. But do we not have an insanely irrational world in which a successful, well-liked, and, I believe, well trained therapist can happily be licensed and practice what he loves, but the moment he crosses an invisible marker called the state line, he becomes unlicensable, and, if he tries to do his work, perhaps a criminal and a felon.

Thanks for listening. Use this letter in any way you want, but without my name, or the state where my beloved lives. Keep up the good work.

 

I appreciate the methodical approach to your comments, Bill. My only comment would be that a number of people don't live close to a university that offers a doctoral program. They can't benefit from residential study with its graduate assistantships and fellowships. Your point is, nonetheless, a reasonable one.

Thanks for the reflective response.


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David F

 

Your assumption that I was not including foreign doctorates that are RA equivalent is correct. However, what would be your thoughts on foreign doctorates? Do you consider them in the same vein as non-RA doctorates?



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David F

 

The cost issue is a compelling argument. I too would like to see an affordable & domestic option for a doctorate. (Preferably one with flexable rules for the residency).

As for your second point about time: If the school actually *IS* good then the time should take the same as with an RA degree, no? If not, why not? I can't see how you can "rush" a doctorate. (And that is the same thing I would ask a non-RA school before enrolling. )

*IF* one were to pursue such an undertaking, at least find something with similar (or better) more difficult rigor than the more costly RA alternative.

 

Interesting that you should mention that.

I wouldn't mind going "brick & mortar" for my doctorate. (I did just that for my Masters.) The problem is that ALL of tehe local schools that even offer a doctorate damn near require you to drop your whole life and attend full-time. This of course is not an option. They force you to look to DL for a solution, and then the domestic DL programs torpedo your wallet.

 

All of my degrees, except for my AA are from state licensed universities. I've never been questioned as to their validity or acceptability, ever, and I work in management where everyone is college educated. It's what you're comfortable with and what works for you. 100 years from now who's going to care I held a degree from a state licensed school? I really don't think spirits in the nether-world will snicker behind my back.."oh, he's the guy who had the unaccredited degree!" "Jumpin jehozifet! How'd he get in here? Only spirts with RA degrees are somebody who's worth something."
If you're comfortable with who you are, why care what others think? Whatever..late


[/B][/QUOTE]

Dramahead,
Where do you live?

Do you live in the same state as your licensed degrees?

(Just curious)

 

Hi Defii,

The questions and issues you're presenting here and in other threads appear to indicate that you are seeking some sort of direction and clarification, which so far has eluded you. It would be beneficial if you could delineate the actual core issues with which you need clarification, whether it be sources of information or assistence in making a decision, that may consequently enable you to pursue your educational/career goals.

 

And I am all for distance learning programs of various hues from disparate institutions **IF** the assessment process is credible. In the first instance I look for some benchmark of credibility, like, regional accreditation, for example.

Indeed, and it may be possible to earn many regionally accredited degrees (or their foreign equivalent) quickly **IF** you are already well prepared, but if you aren't, it MAY take some time to learn the material and do the expected work. In fact, this issue, as it relates to traditionally earned masters degrees (i.e. not earned by examination), will be addressed in my forthcoming masters guide series, "7 Weeks Work to an Accredited Master's Degree". Fortunately, like the BA in 4 Weeks series, there will be no maybes about the credibility of the method or of the programs, or of the outcomes, since, like that bachelor series, the author will deliver a blow by blow account of how these accredited degrees may be gotten in the specified period, at a very reasonable price ($1800 to $3500), which come to think about it, is exactly in the spirit of the format used in the bachelor series. (* all will be regionally accredited or the foreign equivalent of regionally accredited)

Given these accredited and inexpensive alternatives, should an unaccredited degree still be considered at bachelor's or master's level?

Personally, I sometimes wonder who is managing to oversell them. Could you provide us with a name, and the detail of how he or she might be overselling them? What I see are a lot of people who are unaware of the opportunities before them, who would benefit greatly by earning an accredited diploma. I note that in the first 4 weeks since its launch, the BA in 4 Weeks web site received over 10,000 page hits. That was around 9,900 more than I ever expected in that time period. This on the basis of a very restricted URL "distribution". The many email I receive each day, indicate few were aware of the methods and opportunities presented, before visiting the site. Nearly all express a strong desire to see it through to the end, and anticipate earning an accredited degree. Some, are already on their way, and certainly, some have already achieved that goal. I note with satisfaction, Peter Glaeser's acceptance to 9 out of 10 traditional full time master's programs at prestigious UK universities, all on the basis of his Excelsior bachelor's degree, much of which he earned by examination (Peter is midway through his MA program at Warwick University). I note also, that he earned a significant portion of his exam credit from two GRE subject exams, one in Political Science, and the other in Mathematics.

The evidence we have available clearly demonstrates that the methods delineated in BA in 4 Weeks and elsewhere are practical and reasonable. They provide a clear alternative in terms of both price and program duration, to any unaccredited degree. Such alternatives are not oversold - anything but.

They (degrees by examination) may or may not take considerable time and effort to accomplish, depending on the existing knowledge base of the learner, how efficiently they study, their aptitude for the discipline under review, their stamina, and their native wit. More importantly, I cannot think of a scenario in which an unaccredited degree would be a serious alternative.

Yes, they involve knowing the subject, Bill.

Yet I cannot think of one example where it has been proposed by anyone, that a student could become proficient in calculus and advanced mathematical analysis in an afternoon, with the help of Cliff Notes. I know of no detailed proposal for a BS in Math, at all (though one is certainly possible). Who exactly is proposing advanced
mathematics can be learned in an afternoon (with or without Cliff Notes)? Again, could you provide us with the specifics? The devil is, after all, in the detail.
(I know you cannot be referring to BA in 4 Weeks, heaven forfend, since calculus is not covered in any guide: indeed, it is deliberately avoided.)

And as for image of learners rushing for the exits and heading for the nearest unaccredited school when they learn they have been duped by the scurrilous peddlers of the notion of exam based degrees, I'm amused.The adults with whom I correspond were ne'er so gullible.

No, the fact is that these degrees do indeed offer a practical, legitimate, and inexpensive alternative to more traditionally oriented DL programs. Further, it will be
demonstrated in due course, that even more traditional oriented DL degrees at the master's level, can be earned using similar techniques to those developed for the BA in 4 Weeks series. The same principles of utility, quality, minimum duration, and low cost, remain paramount.

Lawrie Miller, BA in 4 Weeks
a non commercial resouce for adult learners http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks

 

The cost issue is puzzling to me. Why do DL programs seem to cost more than residential programs? One would think they could be administered for far less money than residential programs.

One other trend that puzzles me (maybe I'm easily puzzled) is that the 'brick and mortar' guys in this country seem to be slow about getting fully into DL at the doctoral level. Many programs are available at the associate and bachelor's levels. A large number are available at the master's level. Doctoral offerings, however, are few. One would think (sorry, no empirical evidence offered) that students at the lower end of the spectrum would be least capable of independent study and those at the top would be most capable.

I think there is a market for practical, low cost, low residency doctorates to which the RA schools have chosen not to be responsive ... especially in the fields that are more practical and less research intensive, such as business, education, social service, etc.

Just my thoughts.

Tom Rogers

 

Fair enough.

Best of luck to you.