UOP Investigation?

**tomball** · 10-28-2009 11:26 AM

That huge pump from 4/08 to 1/09 is VERY suspicious too. I wouldn't be surprised to see something emerge in a trading investigation as a result. APOL could be a can-o-worms as this progresses.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33509416/for/cnbc/

**Ian Anderson** · 10-28-2009 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by tomball

That huge pump from 4/08 to 1/09 is VERY suspicious too. I wouldn't be surprised to see something emerge in a trading investigation as a result. APOL could be a can-o-worms as this progresses.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33509416/for/cnbc/

This statement amazed me:
"Federal student loans from the government make up nearly 90 percent of the University of Phoenix's tuition income."
I wonder what the figures are for other schools.

**me again** · 10-28-2009 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Anderson

This statement amazed me:
"Federal student loans from the government make up nearly 90 percent of the University of Phoenix's tuition income."
I wonder what the figures are for other schools.

When students default on those loans, the taxpayers are stuck with it while UoP investors and executives get rich. UoP is definitely NOT the only institution that is doing this, although they are named. It's a widespread process in for-profit institutions. Some of these institutions are milking the federal government with this process. Sad.

**Ian Anderson** · 10-28-2009 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by me again

When students default on those loans, the taxpayers are stuck with it while UoP investors and executives get rich. UoP is definitely NOT the only institution that is doing this, although they are named. It's a widespread process in for-profit institutions. Some of these institutions are milking the federal government with this process. Sad.

So what are the requirements for student loans?
I thought the students were obligated to repay them to the lender with interest.
Is UoP (or other institutions) doing anything illegal here?
What about not-for-profit institutions?

**Rich Douglas** · 10-28-2009 05:18 PM

In the U.S., we have what is known as a weak human capital market. As such, most learning and development beyond the secondary level is left to the individual, as opposed to the government controlling the market. As such, the government provides loans and grants, but seldom restricts upon which programs these entitlements are applied. We leave it to a liberal labor market--one controlled by market forces. But human development takes time and lags the market. Also, individuals, left to their own choices, often make decisions to study in areas not necessarily in demand by the labor market. In this sense, the market fails.

What does this all mean? As long as taxpayers are on the hook for subsidizing student aid without aiming it at the nation's priorities, we'll see such market failure. And we'll see UoP and many others sucking at the teat of the federal government--and us.

**tomball** · 10-28-2009 05:21 PM

John Glen Sperling (born 1921) is an American billionaire who is credited with leading the contemporary for-profit education movement in the United States. His fortune is based on his founding of the for-profit University of Phoenix for working adults in 1976, which is now part of the publicly traded Apollo Group. For ventures ranging from pet cloning to green energy, he has widely been described as an "eccentric" self-made man by the Washington Post and other media[1][2]

More recently Sperling has directed his attention toward extending the life span of human beings—research into life extension technology or "biological immortality". Wired magazine reported in their February 2004 article "John Sperling Wants You to Live Forever" that his fortune is quickly approaching US$3 billion, and has plans to donate it to human biology research if and when he dies. If he does so, this would be the biggest private program ever devoted to human biology. However, that is no longer the case and Sperling has indicated that his fortune will go to mainly environmental causes.[5]

John Sperling is also an opponent of drug prohibition and is actively financing initiatives to decriminalize medical marijuana in the United States. According to Time magazine, Sperling used marijuana to combat pain caused by the cancer he fought during the 1960s.[6] Together with George Soros, and Peter Lewis of Progressive Insurance, Sperling raised considerable amounts of money for drug and other related causes, especially during the 2004 presidential campaign.

**Dave Wagner** · 10-28-2009 05:23 PM

Student loans are a rounding error compared to the money wasted on other programs.

Besides, education is really one of the few access points persons of color have to rise through and above the barriers inherent in the dominant culture.

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**tomball** · 10-28-2009 05:26 PM

http://www.apollogrp.edu/Management/JSperling.htm

**Dave Wagner** · 10-28-2009 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by tomball

...decriminalize medical marijuana in the United States.

So what is wrong with decriminalizing medicinal mary jane? Recreational mary jane?

**BillDayson** · 10-28-2009 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Anderson

This statement amazed me:
"Federal student loans from the government make up nearly 90 percent of the University of Phoenix's tuition income."
I wonder what the figures are for other schools.

US News 'America's Best Colleges' reports on percentage of undergraduates receiving need-based financial aid and on the average size of their aid packages. They don't separate the different kinds of aid, but I'd guess that most of it is federal loans. The average percentage of students receiving aid is about 50%-60%, I guess.

A few examples chosen more or less at random:

CSUDH 43% - $8,556 (I would have predicted higher numbers at CSUDH, which attracts many students from low-income families.)

National U. 57% - $9,388
UCLA 50% - $14,329
UC Riverside 63% - $13,933
Yale 43% - $32,533
Howard U. 62% - $13,434
Nova Southeastern 77% - $15,100
Clark Atlanta U. 88% - $9,819
U. Hawaii Manoa 34% - $7,720
East-West U. (IL) 94% - $10,018
Trinity International U. (IL) 76% - $17,823
U MD Univ. College 58% - $5,925
MIT 68% - $29,519

**sandraeli** · 10-29-2009 04:26 AM

It would be interesting to compare their discount rate with the other schools listed here.

**tomball** · 10-29-2009 10:01 AM

So, UOP leads in one noted area - Federal Student Loans.

**me again** · 10-29-2009 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Anderson

So what are the requirements for student loans?
I thought the students were obligated to repay them to the lender with interest.
Is UoP (or other institutions) doing anything illegal here?
What about not-for-profit institutions?

Yes, students are required to pay back the federal monies/loans; however, if a student defaults, then nothing can be done about it; the taxpayer ultimately pays for it while the for-profit institution continues to gain exorbitant profits (shareholders also see their profits rising too). ;) UoP and other for-profit institutions aren't doing anything illegal; it's the federal government who is providing too much money in these particular areas, especially when too many students default on their loans. Not-for-profit institutions can also benefit from all of these shenanigans. The bottom line: it's all perfectly legal and the federal government is giving away too much money, but that's no big surprise, is it? Just because something is ludicrous or immoral doesn't necessarily mean that it's illegal.

**andypicken2** · 10-29-2009 01:32 PM

when you say 'if the student defaults nothing can be done about it' ..

I am confused here. Unless the person is actually bankrupt surely the bank/lender will take legal action / repossession/ balifs and other methods .. ?

if the above is not the case then the system is a joke. - don't know of any other english speaking country that would let people get away with that, a student loan is no different from a mortgage., dont pay up you go to court.

If the students were genuinley bankrupt then that is fair enough. However the banks/lenders need to revise their risk strategy and selection criteria (guess if tax payer loophole they dont have much incentive).

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**me again** · 10-29-2009 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by andypicken2

when you say 'if the student defaults nothing can be done about it' ..

I am confused here. Unless the person is actually bankrupt surely the bank/lender will take legal action / repossession/ balifs and other methods .. ?

if the above is not the case then the system is a joke. - don't know of any other english speaking country that would let people get away with that, a student loan is no different from a mortgage., dont pay up you go to court.

If the students were genuinley bankrupt then that is fair enough. However the banks/lenders need to revise their risk strategy and selection criteria (guess if tax payer loophole they dont have much incentive).

If a person is in debt or owes money, he cannot be incarcerated. The United States does not have debtors prisons, with the exception of child support -- and that's a recently new phenomenon in the U.S.

**DBA_Curious** · 10-29-2009 04:25 PM

If an institution has too high of a default rate on student loans, the US government has the right to withdraw aid to that school. It has happened a few times to trade schools I know of.

Also, you can't just walk away from student loans. They're hard to discharge in bankruptcy and the federal government can sue indefinitely for reimbursement. In addition, you can be restricted from ever taking out financial aid again.

I doubt UOP has some nightmarish default rate on student loans or you'd hear about that.

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