I am looking for a state approved EDUC Admin phd program

**kris2009** · 09-24-2009 05:21 PM

I've been sifting through the threads and posts trying to find answers. I decided it would be quicker to ask the question then to try to find my answer from someone elses question. lol

My problem is that currently I have completed 15 credits toward my PhD from NCU but I recently found out that they are not a state approved program for administration so my state, Virginia, will not recognize the degree for an administration endorsement.

I am looking for a 100% distance program that is state approved, meaning in that state, for education administration and where I can continue on to earn my PhD.

NCU seemed to be my answer until I hit this snag. Anyone have any suggestions?

**Kizmet** · 09-24-2009 05:51 PM

Hi Kris - Sorry for your troubles. I have to tell you though that I'm confused. Why would the great state of Virginia say that an NCU degree was not OK? What is the stated reason?

**Abner** · 09-24-2009 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by kris2009

I've been sifting through the threads and posts trying to find answers. I decided it would be quicker to ask the question then to try to find my answer from someone elses question. lol

My problem is that currently I have completed 15 credits toward my PhD from NCU but I recently found out that they are not a state approved program for administration so my state, Virginia, will not recognize the degree for an administration endorsement.

I am looking for a 100% distance program that is state approved, meaning in that state, for education administration and where I can continue on to earn my PhD.

NCU seemed to be my answer until I hit this snag. Anyone have any suggestions?

Was this denial in writing? Is it on a website, did someone tell you? I just don't understand why a regionally accredited school would be denied. Like Kizmet asked, what was the reason given?

Abner

**scaredrain** · 09-24-2009 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by kris2009

I've been sifting through the threads and posts trying to find answers. I decided it would be quicker to ask the question then to try to find my answer from someone elses question. lol

My problem is that currently I have completed 15 credits toward my PhD from NCU but I recently found out that they are not a state approved program for administration so my state, Virginia, will not recognize the degree for an administration endorsement.

I am looking for a 100% distance program that is state approved, meaning in that state, for education administration and where I can continue on to earn my PhD.

NCU seemed to be my answer until I hit this snag. Anyone have any suggestions?

This can be an issue in NC as well, some school districts will not recognize a doctorate or masters degree,unless it leads to licensure or is NCATE accredited. We had an instance with an administrator who had his doctorate degree in educational leadership from Argosy . The state, nor would the district approve his pay level at the doctorate level, since the program did not lead to an administrator license. He had to take the praxis 2 test and then take a few courses in order to obtain the license, after that, they paid him at the doctorate rate. I went through something similar, after landing my current position as director of technology, which is considered administrator level. I had to submit transcripts for my masters and my work history to a university. I was lucky that I did not have to take any extra tests or course work, and the university determined that my masters was equivalent to a licensed program at the university, so they issued me an administrator's license.

A way around this is to take the administrator level praxis 2 exams after obtaining the doctorate or to already hold an administrator license. I am not sure how it works in VA. Liberty University in VA has a distance learning Ed.D and an Ed.S degree thhat are both NCATE accredited. You should check them out:
http://www.luonline.com/index.cfm?PID=18924

Another option is the very costly Regent University :
http://www.regent.edu/acad/schedu/academics/

You may also want to look at reciprocity agreements that VA has with other states, when it comes to licensure you may be able to satisfy requirements this way, check with your state board of instruction or education . This is just one instance of whats wrong with public education , due to NCLB requirements and the need to be highly qualifed, has lead to many qualified people not being able to teach. There was a big write up about this situation in a local newspaper, due to a retired chemist who wanted to teach in a local school district, despite having over 30 years of experience and a masters in chemistry, he was told that he would have to go back to school to earn a teacher 's license and complete other requirements. The district had to go with a first year chemistry teacher , which caused an uproar once the story got out, but the district was only following NCLB requirements. Anyways I will get off my soap box now!

**me again** · 09-25-2009 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by scaredrain

This can be an issue in NC as well, some school districts will not recognize a doctorate or masters degree,unless it leads to licensure or is NCATE accredited. We had an instance with an administrator who had his doctorate degree in educational leadership from Argosy . The state, nor would the district approve his pay level at the doctorate level, since the program did not lead to an administrator license. He had to take the praxis 2 test and then take a few courses in order to obtain the license, after that, they paid him at the doctorate rate. I went through something similar, after landing my current position as director of technology, which is considered administrator level. I had to submit transcripts for my masters and my work history to a university. I was lucky that I did not have to take any extra tests or course work, and the university determined that my masters was equivalent to a licensed program at the university, so they issued me an administrator's license.

A way around this is to take the administrator level praxis 2 exams after obtaining the doctorate or to already hold an administrator license. I am not sure how it works in VA. Liberty University in VA has a distance learning Ed.D and an Ed.S degree thhat are both NCATE accredited. You should check them out:
http://www.luonline.com/index.cfm?PID=18924

Another option is the very costly Regent University :
http://www.regent.edu/acad/schedu/academics/

You may also want to look at reciprocity agreements that VA has with other states, when it comes to licensure you may be able to satisfy requirements this way, check with your state board of instruction or education. This is just one instance of whats wrong with public education, due to NCLB requirements and the need to be highly qualifed, has lead to many qualified people not being able to teach. There was a big write up about this situation in a local newspaper, due to a retired chemist who wanted to teach in a local school district, despite having over 30 years of experience and a masters in chemistry, he was told that he would have to go back to school to earn a teacher's license and complete other requirements. The district had to go with a first year chemistry teacher, which caused an uproar once the story got out, but the district was only following NCLB requirements. Anyways I will get off my soap box now!

If I hadn't read this here, I wouldn't have believed it. Unbelievable!

Thanks for sharing.

**Ted Heiks** · 09-25-2009 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by kris2009

I've been sifting through the threads and posts trying to find answers. I decided it would be quicker to ask the question then to try to find my answer from someone elses question. lol

My problem is that currently I have completed 15 credits toward my PhD from NCU but I recently found out that they are not a state approved program for administration so my state, Virginia, will not recognize the degree for an administration endorsement.

I am looking for a 100% distance program that is state approved, meaning in that state, for education administration and where I can continue on to earn my PhD.

NCU seemed to be my answer until I hit this snag. Anyone have any suggestions?

Contact the Department of Education in Virginia and find out why Northcentral University is not on their approved list.

**scaredrain** · 09-25-2009 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ted Heiks

Contact the Department of Education in Virginia and find out why Northcentral University is not on their approved list.

I dont think its an issue of Northcentral University not being approved, its the fact that their educational administration programs do not lead to licensure. A person can earn an education related degree from anywhere, but its up to the state or the school district to determine if that degree merits the pay increase that normally goes with earning a masters or a doctorate degree. The current Ed.D program that I am enrolled in at Capella , states that they do not lead to licensure either, the same can be said of Walden University's Ed.D program. Both Walden and Capella also have a little message that says for the person to contact their state education licensing board to see what the requirements are for licensing. This is one of these quirks that states and school districts can use in order to not pay a teacher or administrator at a higher rate.

Here is Walden's disclaimer for their Ed.d in Higher Education and Adult Learning:
http://www.waldenu.edu/Degree-Progra...rate/18364.htm

"*Walden University does not offer a state-approved Ed.D. (Doctor of Education ) or Ph.D. in Education program that is recognized for P–12 school administrator licensure/certification in Minnesota (Walden’s home state) or any other state. Walden University makes no representation or guarantee that successful completion of Walden's doctoral programs, or coursework for graduate credit within any doctoral program, will permit a graduate to obtain state certification or licensure as a principal, assistant principal, or other type of K–12 administrator."

Here is Capella 's disclaimer for the Ed.D program that I am currently enrolled in:
http://www.capella.edu/schools_progr...ship_mgmt.aspx
"This specialization does not satisfy licensure requirements for P–12 public school teachers or administrators."

Northcentral University also has a disclaimer of sorts:
http://www.ncu.edu/academics/educati...ification.aspx

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**mattbrent** · 09-26-2009 02:44 AM

Virginia's "State Approved" programs are those in Virginia. Our DOE isn't going to go search through every state's programs and approve each and every one. This is why states have reciprocity. While Virginia may not approve programs in Minnesota, for example, Minnesota might approve some. If Minnisota has a program leading to licensure in Administration or Special Education or something similar, through reciprocity Virginia will accept the program.

If NCU is not a state approved program in its home state, there's basically no chance of Virginia approving it. I really wanted to do Walden's PhD in K-12 Administration. It's not state approved, though it has practically the exact same courses as every state approved program in Virginia. When I inquired about it, I recieved the answer above from the DOE. It would have to be licensed in Minnesota, which it is not.

HOWEVER... I am absolutely THRILLED to share that Walden is in the process of beginning to offer an EdS with licensure in Administration and Supervision. The program is $720 per semester credit hour, which is a bit pricey comparatively. If you begin the program in January when it kicks off, you'll save 15% off the entire program's tuition. I'm trying to talk my wife into doing it with me. If we do it together (or do any mixture of programs together) Walden gives a family discount of 25%. That's not too shabby when my employer's tuition reimbursement kicks in.

I know the EdS is NOT a PhD, but it is higher than a masters, and some schools will let you apply an EdS towards a PhD.

-Matt

**gonenomad** · 09-26-2009 04:16 AM

Matt is correct. You can check on reciprocity through the NASDTEC agreement at http://www.nasdtec.org/agreement.php.

Reciprocity is usually a very easy thing to deal with. Over the past ten years I have transferred my teaching licenses from California, to Nevada, to Indiana, and finally to Illinois. Along the way I picked up new teaching licenses in different states and these have always been accepted. Sometime you will have to take required exams; however, most teacher exams are easy.

Lastly, to comment on scaredrain's story about the chemist. I am not at all surprised about the chemist with 30 years of experience being denied the job. Most people assume that content knowledge is all that is need to teach. However, there are many different areas of knowledge that are required to be a teacher . First, consider that a teacher needs content knowledge and pedagogical knowledge. The retired chemist certainly has knowledge of the former; however, where in his 30 year career would he gain the latter? The newly trained teacher would have taken courses in chemistry pedagogy. Second, a big component of teaching is the classroom management. When would the chemist have taken coursework in the classroom environment or classroom management? The newly trained teacher would have recently. Third, planning instruction is an important part of teaching . However, determining how to plan instruction is not always intuitive. When would the experienced chemist have received training on accommodating the diverse students in his classroom. The newly trained teacher would have taken classes on special ed students, gifted students, instructional strategies, etc. In my mind the newly trained teacher was the most qualified.

**Ted Heiks** · 09-26-2009 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by scaredrain

I dont think its an issue of Northcentral University not being approved, its the fact that their educational administration programs do not lead to licensure. A person can earn an education related degree from anywhere, but its up to the state or the school district to determine if that degree merits the pay increase that normally goes with earning a masters or a doctorate degree. The current Ed.D program that I am enrolled in at Capella , states that they do not lead to licensure either, the same can be said of Walden University's Ed.D program. Both Walden and Capella also have a little message that says for the person to contact their state education licensing board to see what the requirements are for licensing. This is one of these quirks that states and school districts can use in order to not pay a teacher or administrator at a higher rate.

Here is Walden's disclaimer for their Ed.d in Higher Education and Adult Learning:
http://www.waldenu.edu/Degree-Progra...rate/18364.htm

"*Walden University does not offer a state-approved Ed.D. (Doctor of Education ) or Ph.D. in Education program that is recognized for P–12 school administrator licensure/certification in Minnesota (Walden’s home state) or any other state. Walden University makes no representation or guarantee that successful completion of Walden's doctoral programs, or coursework for graduate credit within any doctoral program, will permit a graduate to obtain state certification or licensure as a principal, assistant principal, or other type of K–12 administrator."

Here is Capella 's disclaimer for the Ed.D program that I am currently enrolled in:
http://www.capella.edu/schools_progr...ship_mgmt.aspx
"This specialization does not satisfy licensure requirements for P–12 public school teachers or administrators."

Northcentral University also has a disclaimer of sorts:
http://www.ncu.edu/academics/educati...ification.aspx

Disclaimers of this sort are typical for online schools (as opposed to bricks & mortar schools) and this is so for one reason. Bricks & mortar schools can tailor their programs to the requirements of their particular state, whereas online schools have students residing in many different states and even foreign countries. What their disclaimer means, then, is that the school cannot necessarily guarantee that their program will meet state licensure requirements in any particular state and so it is the student's responsibility to find out from their state's Department of Education what their licensure requirements are and determine whether their program meets their requirements.

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