+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    03310151 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    1,437

    Chart on Education Costs vs. Earnings

    http://www.businessweek.com/the_thre...gs_of_you.html

    Earnings of Young College Grads vs College Costs
    Posted by: Michael Mandel on September 12

    The top line is the cost of private four-year institutions, adjusted for inflation. The bottom line is the real annual pay of young full-time workers with a bachelorís only (where young means Ď25-34í). The college cost data comes from the College Board, and the income data comes from the latest Census report. Both lines are indexed to 1991=1.0.

    You can see that in the 1990s, pay for young college grads rose at basically the same rate as college costs.

    But since 2000, the two lines have moved in opposite directions. In real terms, college costs are up by 23% since 2000. But real pay for young college grads is down 11% over the same period.

    This canít go on. Itís just not possible.

    Technical note: I used the nominal cost data from the College Board, and then applied the same price deflator for both earnings and college costs.
    With every passing day, you realize you will not fight bad guys, not join the CIA, not be in a band, not throw the winning touchdown. You will not know kung fu. Your body sickeningly, boringly confirms it. You breathe harder when you run. You don't run anyway. Hair missing, appearing.

  2. #2
    mbaonline is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Puget-tropolis
    Posts
    745

    Exclamation

    Here's another article with some similar ideas, perhaps different conclusions.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/ma...wln-t.html?hpw
    B.A. Economics; University of Washington
    MBA Finance/Accounting; Regis University
    Adjunct Online Instructor - Undergraduate Economics and Graduate-level Finance

  3. #3
    Ian Anderson is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    4,785
    Quote Originally Posted by 03310151 View Post
    http://www.businessweek.com/the_thre...gs_of_you.html

    Earnings of Young College Grads vs College Costs
    Posted by: Michael Mandel on September 12

    The top line is the cost of private four-year institutions, adjusted for inflation. The bottom line is the real annual pay of young full-time workers with a bachelorís only (where young means Ď25-34í). The college cost data comes from the College Board, and the income data comes from the latest Census report. Both lines are indexed to 1991=1.0.

    You can see that in the 1990s, pay for young college grads rose at basically the same rate as college costs.

    But since 2000, the two lines have moved in opposite directions. In real terms, college costs are up by 23% since 2000. But real pay for young college grads is down 11% over the same period.

    This canít go on. Itís just not possible.

    Technical note: I used the nominal cost data from the College Board, and then applied the same price deflator for both earnings and college costs.
    Comparing two normalized curves for different parameters is meaningless.
    Ian Anderson


    BS, Excelsior College
    MS Quality Assurance, California State University Dominguez Hills
    Master Aeronautical Science, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
    Associate Fellow, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics

  4. #4
    03310151 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    1,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Anderson View Post
    Comparing two normalized curves for different parameters is meaningless.
    Noting that you have degrees in QA, I will defer to your expertise, I have only had a couple of courses in statistics and quantitative analysis. So the arguement that college costs have risen at a faster rate than new graduate earning is not valid, why?

    Just trying to understand, I found the article and the resulting internet reading I embarked on fascinating but would like to hear what is wrong the this data.

    Thanks.
    With every passing day, you realize you will not fight bad guys, not join the CIA, not be in a band, not throw the winning touchdown. You will not know kung fu. Your body sickeningly, boringly confirms it. You breathe harder when you run. You don't run anyway. Hair missing, appearing.

  5. #5
    CalDog is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,249
    The graph is valid to the extent that it shows that costs for one parameter have risen faster than the other over the same time period. But this fact alone is not necessarily alarming, and does not necessarily support the conclusion that "this can't go on, it's just not possible".

    Assume that pencils represent part of the cost of a college education . Suppose the real cost for a pencil happened to rise from 5 cents to 10 cents over the same 17-year time period. You could normalize pencil costs and plot them in the same way on the same graph; the pencil curve would be much steeper than the others, rising from 1.0 to 2.0. This would make for an alarming graph, yet in reality most people would not necessarily perceive it as a major concern.
    Last edited by CalDog; 09-25-2009 at 12:13 PM.

  6. #6
    03310151 is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    1,437
    Quote Originally Posted by CalDog View Post
    The graph is valid to the extent that it shows that costs for one parameter have risen faster than the other over the same time period. But this fact alone is not necessarily alarming, and does not necessarily support the conclusion that "this can't go on, it's just not possible".

    Assume that pencils represent part of the cost of a college education. Suppose the real cost for a pencil happened to rise from 5 cents to 10 cents over the same 17-year time period. You could normalize pencil costs and plot them in the same way on the same graph; the pencil curve would be much steeper than the others, rising from 1.0 to 2.0. This would make for an alarming graph, yet in reality most people would not necessarily perceive it as a major concern.

    I see your point, but many people (not the self-enlightened folks on this board) go to school in order to make their living. The costs of pencils is of no consequence, but I'm pretty sure knowing that you are paying more for something (college education ) and not going to be better off because of it (average wage) would be a little disconcerting.
    With every passing day, you realize you will not fight bad guys, not join the CIA, not be in a band, not throw the winning touchdown. You will not know kung fu. Your body sickeningly, boringly confirms it. You breathe harder when you run. You don't run anyway. Hair missing, appearing.

  7. #7
    CalDog is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,249
    Quote Originally Posted by 03310151 View Post
    I'm pretty sure knowing that you are paying more for something (college education) and not going to be better off because of it (average wage) would be a little disconcerting.
    It would be disconcerting -- but the graph in question does not make that point at all.

    To determine if paying for a college education would make you better off in terms of average wages, you would need to compare the absolute (not normalized) wages of college graduates versus those of non-graduates. This would be a completely different graph. And it would show that college graduates continue to make substantially higher wages than non-graduates (as per the NY Times story). So a college education will, on average, increase your wages.

    Further calculation would likely show that the net effects of a college education on earnings are still positive, even after adjusting for the tuition and opportunity costs of college attendance. Tuition costs for college have risen in a relative sense in recent years, but (as the NY Times story points out) the opportunity costs have fallen.
    Last edited by CalDog; 09-25-2009 at 12:46 PM.

  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    Ian Anderson is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    4,785
    Quote Originally Posted by 03310151 View Post
    Noting that you have degrees in QA, I will defer to your expertise, I have only had a couple of courses in statistics and quantitative analysis. So the arguement that college costs have risen at a faster rate than new graduate earning is not valid, why?

    Just trying to understand, I found the article and the resulting internet reading I embarked on fascinating but would like to hear what is wrong the this data.

    Thanks.

    Normalization works well when comparing related data from different sources; for example comparing earnings of college graduates vs. high school graduates over time or cost of attending private colleges vs. public colleges over time.

    In this case the college costs are probably somewhat fixed and change according to a inflation factor (thus the curve is essentially a straight line).

    Graduate earnings on the other hand are subject to a wide variety of influences over time including degree subject, work culture, shortage or surplus of graduates, and full time or part time employment.
    Ian Anderson


    BS, Excelsior College
    MS Quality Assurance, California State University Dominguez Hills
    Master Aeronautical Science, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
    Associate Fellow, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174