Are Doors Opening for Non-RA Grads?

In a recent thread we discussed (almost ad nauseum) the matter of non-RA grads having difficulty pursuing RA advanced degrees. Someone mentioned that Capella University would consider DETC or other approved accreditors' degrees as meeting the requiste for entry into doctoral programs.

It seems like Liberty University has stated as a matter of policy that they will accept non RA masters program as meeting the criteria for entry into their DL M.Ed. and Ed.D. programs. Their online catalog states,

"Official transcript of an appropriate degree earned from a regionally accredited institution or school accredited by another accrediting agency approved by the U.S. Department of Education. Transcripts should be sent directly to the Office of Graduate Admissions from the previous school(s)."

You may recall that I raised concern that if RA schools will not accept DETC grads into their doctoral programs, then DETC masters graduates have essentially completed terminal degrees. I think this is a good thing on two fronts:

First, it will afford DETC and professionally accredited programs (that are not RA) to demonstrate if in fact they can really cut the mustard. Second, it begins to streamline this whole accrediation matter and makes it easier for the consumer.

Any thoughts from the true DL scholars out there?



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David F

 

David, I don't consider myself a true DL scholar, but I'll chime in with a response.

First, if anything, I think the doors are closing in terms of acceptance of non-RA degrees in the manner you suggest. This goes especially at the bachelor's degree level.

Second, I think that non-RA graduate degrees have a very limited use and certainly should not be counted upon to serve as a threshold credential for getting a job or for consideration for transfer of credits to RA programs. I think the primary legitimate use for a non-RA graduate degree is when someone wants to engage in the learning for its own sake, at presumably lower cost than RA counterparts, and does not intend to use the degree as a credential for getting hired or gaining some other formal recognition. This may include those who want to study subjects of personal interest (e.g., a history buff who studies at DETC American Military University), or entrepreneurial types who need more educational grounding to launch their own projects (e.g., a software engineer who wants to start her own business and who enrolls in Cal Coast's MBA program).

The exceptions to this, interestingly, appear on the far right and far left of the political spectrum. Certain conservative schools that don't have RA nevertheless have gained a following within conservative circles, e.g. Oak Brook College of Law and Liberty University. The school that I am attending, the Western Institute for Social Research, has a very good track record of graduates going into poltically progressive social change work, including various teaching positions. But more mainstream employers and schools are not going to be nearly as hospitable to non-RA degrees.

 

Are Doors Opening for Non-RA Grads?

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The answer to this question is "Yes" if education continues move toward the real world of having to compete for business -- students.

Remember the day when hospitals didn't have to market.

The World According to Wes

 

I suspect this clause was probably added primarily to accommodate TRACS and AABC schools (in addition to being regionally accredited, Liberty is accredited by TRACS, and has been one of its staunchest supporters over the years; now would be a good time, if he's lurking, for Steve to chime in with the Jerry Falwell story).


Cheers,

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Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

I'm familiar with TRACS, but what is AABC? Doesn't TRACS accreditation cover degrees in Religion & Theology? The quote I pasted was in regards to admission to their School of Education.

I'm wondering if there are other doctoral programs that take the same position as a matter of policy.



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David F

 

David,

Perhaps I misunderstand what you're saying. You appear to cite Oak Brook and Liberty as "conservative schools that don't have RA..." Liberty University is regionally accredited. That is why their admission of non-RA graduates (from schools with other recognized accreditors)into their doctoral program in education caught my attention.


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David F

 

\

The Accrediting Association of Bible Colleges, their homepage is:
http://www.gospelcom.net/aabc/Default.htm


Bruce

 

There seems to be an inclination to move past the words "approved by the UDOE" in the cut and paste from the catalog. It does not say "any other accrediting agency."

Alumus 1990 MA in Counseling

and neither the diploma nor transcript show that it was completed by distance learning.

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Howard Rodgers

 

Whoops, re Liberty, my mistake! I was thinking of another conservative, religious college whose name escapes me right now.

 

I agree with David Yamada regarding the political aspect, but would like to expand that to niche markets in general. Non-RA degrees have utility in communities where people have some other reason to recognize and accept the degrees in question.

The obvious example is American Military University. This school was explicitly created to serve military personnel. Since the military accepts DETC degrees for most purposes, there is little drawback to AMU degrees as long as you remain in that context. It's also valuable in civilian federal employment.

There are religious niches as well. Dharma Realm Buddhist University, a CA-approved school, seems to have a pretty good reputation within at least one segment of Chinese Buddhists in California. I believe that there are also some non-RA Christian seminaries that exist to prepare candidates for ordination in a particular denomination, and whose degrees obviously have utility since they are accepted by the church. In fact, in those kind of situations, church acceptance is probably more important than accreditation.

San Francisco Law School is CA-approved and Cal. Bar accredited, but not RA or ABA. But it has trained a considerable number of Bay Area attorneys, including several local judges, and prepares its graduates to take the bar exam in California. So while you wouldn't expect to find its graduates as partners in prestigious firms, it has a niche. It prepares the "people's" lawyers that you might find representing tenant's groups and stuff.

 

Bob Jones University? They seem to be the most prominent non-accredited school on the "religious right".

 

I *fully* understand why many on this board do not regard the Cal. approval process as being one that ensures educational quality. And yet, to chime in with Bill and also to speak from personal experience, I know that there are good non-RA schools that accreditors simply won't consider for accreditation. Isn't one option to have a truly meaningful and rigorous approval process?

Another option may be to consider the categories of degrees. Non-RA Ph.D.s seem to be particularly problematic to some. I would suggest an alternative for legitimate non-RA schools is to revive the Doctor of Arts (D.A.) degree, which is offered by a small handful of brick & mortar RA schools as a "less academic but still academic" doctorate (as opposed to, say, the practitioner oriented Ed.D.) but is pretty much a dead letter. This could get us out of that when is a Ph.D. a Ph.D. debate.

 

David,

Doesn't this further widen the gap that we would all like to see closed? If there is a distinction of the sort you've suggested, then I think there is increased chances of discrimination. I would think that the emphasis should be placed on bridging the gap (even if its only a gap of perception) between DL programs and traditional programs.

Now, I am not qualified to make determinations about the research products of RA schools as opposed to non-RA schools. I know, however, from personal experience and from the reports of several contributors to this board that accredited programs are generally a safer bet. It would be good if the programs can produce essentially grads with similar education and similar capabilities.



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David F

 

Back in 1998 or 1999, I looked into a SF bay area small (around 600 headcounts) CA approved residential university, which teaches students EE/CS/BA. At that time, it had a PhD program. I talked to the president of the university to see whether there was any chance for the university to go for a RA in the future. The president told me that since most of the faculty there teach part-time, like adjunt faculty in other local RA universites, it is very hard for them to meet the RA requirement. Finally the university ended up to drop its PhD program and get ACICS accreditation.

Another small university, which is also pretty much an engineering school, follows the same route. It dropped its PhD program, then got the ACICS accreditation recently.

I wonder whether the RA is too hard to get for small new schools.

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Jonathan Liu
http://www.geocities.com/liu_jonathan/distance.html