Any "Affordable" Good Online Schools Out There?

Well, I am glad I found this board as two members have steered me clear of two schools that could have been a huge mistake for me not to mention a substantial drain on my wallet. Thanks to both of you. So, my next question is: are there any good, legitimate schools out there that are affordable? (Im looking for a B.A. in English or Communications or a B.S. in Business Admin. or Management) On the adivece of others I checked out University of Maryland and University of Phoenix. From the research Ive done and from what Ive heard, they seem to be two well-known schools that are widely recognized and accepted in the "real world". The only downside I can see is that they are rather expensive. I did see the 60 Minutes segment on UoP and they mentioned that classes were around $400 each which I thought was reasonable. I called them and was told that the tuition was raised to $412 per semester hour. A big increase and kind of expensive for me. Unless I could qualify for grants to cover it all, I couldnt do it (I am currently paying back around 10K in student loans right now.). Anyway, if anyone on the board could lend some advice or steer me toward a legitimate school with affordable tuition Id appreciate it.

 

I am not British but for a BA in English or a BSc Management it is hard to beat the University of London.

Search on University of London External.

The BA in English is the same program offered from Birbeck College (of course it may make sense that if you are going to study English, perhaps you should study it from an English school). I think the cost is about $6K... a steal.

The BSc is offered throught the London School of Economics... one of the most prestigious academic institutions anywhere... and it is also about $6K (again, incredible value).

I suggest that either of these degrees from one of the most prestigious Universities in the world would serve you well.

PS. you may want to check www.universityofpheonixsucks.com

 

So why the animosity towards UoP? Can you go into a little more detail why the "suck"? Thanks.

 

I agree that the University of London may be an excellent choice, if you are comfortable with its peculiarities.

The "lead college" for the BA in English is Goldsmith's, not Birkbeck. The degree is actually granted by the U of L through the External Programme, not through Goldsmith's. More importantly, it is not really the same program that Goldsmith's offers. The external programme offers no instruction and simply sends you a list of texts to read and administers examinations. So the format includes little or no faculty contact.
.
http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/qualifications/undergraduate/english/study.shtml

They say that while many students study on their own, some students take commercial tutoring courses for the exams where those are available, and others take courses at local universities.

Again, the same remarks I made above apply here. The degree is offered through the External Programme, not by the more prestigious LSE. And more importantly, it is not taught by LSE faculty and has an independent study plus examinations format.

Having said all that, I'll also say that I think that the University of London's External Programme is great. It certainly offers a wide variety of interesting majors at an affordable price. I just think that one needs to be realistic about it.

 

As to external master degree programs, lead college will supply detailed course materials and textbooks. The staff at the lead college will mark assignments and give comments. However, there is not much interaction between students and teachers.

The graduates of external programs are also eligible to join UOL Convocation as Life Membership and alumni association of the lead college.

 

I was quite disappointed in UMUC. I started the BS in CIS program where I found the instructors quite distant; moreover, I enountered a flawed interface in a two-term programming sequence. A key component was not covered in the prequel which made it extremely difficult to negotiate the sequel. My attempts to communicate this to the administration were met with striking disinterest. Eventually I decided to jump the chain of command and after two attempts to communicate my issue to the Universtity President I was eventually contacted by the University Provost. Mind you, I'm a 50-something Ph.D. I shudder to imagine the experience of the typical undergraduate. To be fair, the Provost did acknowledge the presence of a lapse and he assured me that QM measures were to be emplaced to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. The issue boiled down to limited supervision of the freeway faculty. Disgusted, I transferred into the BS IS program at UMass Lowell which has been a great experience. The tuition is significant less; I think it is $225 per semester credit with no additional fees for out of state students. I'd encourage you to take a look.

 

I got my MBA through UOP recently, so maybe I can offer up some reasons why people say that it sucks. Here are some pros and cons of the school and program that I wrote as part of an essay immediately after finishing my degree (note -- I'm gonna try some HTML here, so don't kill me if it doesn't work...):

Pros
<ol>
<li>Convenient locations
<li>Minimum time commitment. Classes meet once a week (nominally 4 hours, but usually less), group activities also once a week (again, nominally 4 hours, but never, ever, that long in reality)
<li>No tests to study for
<li>Pretty light workload, especially considering it's a grad program
<li>Year round program, so it gets done pretty quick
You can start whenever -- programs start year-round
<li>Easy admissions. No GMAT, no applications, no letters of reference -- just a 2.5 Undergrad GPA (or keep your GPA above 3.0 for your first three classes with a less than 2.5 UGPA)
</ol>
Cons
<ol>
<li>Minimum time commitment. I'm sorry, but once you realize that the group meetings are a complete sham, you are left with about half of the hours per class than you would get at a traditional university -- and I don't think you can get anywhere near the depth or breadth of knowledge in that limited timecompared to what you would get in a traditional semester-length course.
No tests. Well, how are you going to know if you've learned anything? I guess if they actually gave tests some people would flunk out, which would hurt their bottom line -- can't have that.
<li>Light workload. Again, there just isn't enough time and work to actually learn a lot. The written assignments were usually pathetically easy -- oh, there were a few that actually took a little time, but, if you skipped the reading (and there really isn't any motivation to really keep up with the reading unless you are interested, because there are no tests) you could probably get by with an hour or less a week of homework. Not enough to learn anything.
<li>Easy admissions. This is one of my biggest problems with UOP. Since virtually anyone can get it, and nobody ever flunks out, you end up with students ranging from very well qualified (basically, people who could have gone to a really good MBA program, but for whatever reason chose UOP) down to people who would never get into a traditional school. The disparity is very apparent -- I am not ashamed to admit that I will be embarrassed to admit that I have the same degree as some of the other people in the program. Yes, it is that bad. I hate to say it, but UOP is only a small step up from a degree mill -- at least as long as they retain their accreditation, they are still that one step up...
<li>Group Assignments. What a complete waste of time. In order to maintain accreditation, classes need to meet around 45+ hours per class (In a regular school, you might go 3 days x 1 hour x 16 weeks = 48 hours) for a 3 unit class -- you are only in class 4 hours a week for 6 weeks = 24 hours (and very few teachers keep you anywhere close to that), so they make up the rest with "group meetings" and a "group assignment" -- usually a comprehensive paper covering the class topics. Of course, the group meetings are a complete joke -- even when we did meet (and we rarely did), we only met for an hour or less. The group projects sucked for 2 reasons. First, there was always at least 1 person in any given group who was either lazy, uncaring, or stupid (or had some other chronic health/family/other problem that kept them from contributing), and the rest of the group had to cover for them. Second, 30% of your grade is based on the group project, so if you have slackers, you either have to work extra hard or pay a penalty in grading. Of course, since there isn't a lot of work involved anyway extra work isn't a big deal, but its the principle of letting other people's grades get improvement from your work that bothers me.
<li>Part-time Faculty. UOP hires "working professionals" with "real-world experience" to teach their classes. Some were very good, people who actually had a lot of knowledge and experience and were eager to teach. Most, however, were either experienced UOP teachers (that is, burned out), and some were just worthless. We had this one guy who must have been a professional storyteller, 'cause he kept making stuff up on the fly. And he was really rude and condescening as well. I've had some lousy teachers at other schools as well, but at least they new their material -- they just couldn't teach. UOP sometimes gets people who both know nothing and can't teach. I think a big part of the problem is that UOP hires its own graduates...
<li>Course Modules. Every course is taught to a standard "course module" -- basically, all of the reading and assignments for each class are exactly the same for each identical class. From the outside, this doesn't seem too bad -- everyone gets taught the same stuff, and since you know what all of your readings and assingments are going to be for the entire course, you can plan your life accordingly. But in reality, the modules suck. First of all, they are rarely up-to-date, and they are not updated when new versions of texts come out. Second, a lot of teachers just go off on their own anyway -- these two things often caused great confusion amongst the students. Modules make it easy for the part-time professors (since they don't have to come up with lesson plans), but they do not provide an optimal learning experience, in my opinion.
<li>$$$ -- UOP is currently around $1200 for a 3-unit class, and they raise tuition twice a year, rain or shine. And they will hound you like disgruntled loan sharks if you are late in paying tuition. And they will f&*% up your records and come after you even if you do pay on time. Every school I've attended, every last one, has made a big deal about getting tuition and fees paid on time, but UOP is ruthless in this matter.
</ol>

Okay, so I was a little hot under the collar right after finishing my degree. Basically, a UOP degree is a legitimate degree, in that UOP is accredited -- I have a friend with a BBA from UOP who then went on to law school at an ABA-accredited school, and is now a lawyer, so you can do things with the degree. I know a lot of technical folks in the Silicon Valley with UOP MBA's who have moved into management (hey, I guess I am one of them). So, it is not a useless degree.

That said, if there is a state college or other program you can go to, I would strongly recommend it -- it would be cheaper and a better experience. My BS and MS are both from state colleges, and I am going to law school at an ABA-school, so my UOP degree is my only exposure to for-profit education. If there is not another real choice (due to location, scheduling, whatever), then UOP will work -- it is certainly better than no degree at all, and it is an accredited institution -- but state college or (if you really want to spend a lot of money) a good private school will give you more bang for the buck.

Let me know if anyone has any further questions I might answer.

Richard

 

Okay, so the HTML didn't work. Sorry about that.

 

You are not alone... others have communicated similar thoughts. What is even more amazing is that these are UoP students... generally graduates will overstate their schools because of personal investment and lack of comparisons.

Of course this also tells you something with respect to relying on Regional Accreditation for quality control.

 

I find it amazing that many students ignore UoL and puruse vastly inferior offerings.

 

You don't have to be British to recommend a British school. It does not matter whether you are a Canadian or a British. What matters is the school that you recommend. University of London is a good school.

 

Yes, I have a question for you, but I need your email address becuase I want to send the question privately to you. My email address is [email protected]

Ike
(who never attended University of Phonix, does not plan to enroll in any of the school's program, and has nothing against UofP)

 

Which schools are "vastly inferior" to the University of London, and why do you think so?

 

UoL is generally accepted to be one of the finest universities in what is generally accepted to be one of the finest educational systems in the world. Many many schools are as good or better with respect to quality of curriculum and academic standards but they rarely offer DL opportunities.

 

You seem to be suggesting that all but a few of the DL schools that are discussed on Degreeinfo are "vastly inferior" to the University of London's external program.

I would still like some specific examples of schools that you find inferior, and to learn why you believe that London is superior to them.

 

Richard or whoever you are,
I am still waiting for you to contact me through my email address. Like I state in my previous post, I have many questions to ask you. If you don't contact me, I will conclude that you are an anonymous poster.

 

Ike, You may want to try posting a new topic directly to Richards. He may not even be checking the repys on this topic.

 

Yes, the majority of the DL schools that are discussed on Degreeinfo are "vastly inferior" to the UoL external program (using traditional academic measures as a rule).

First, DL generally tend to be more plentiful at the lower end. Second, Degreeinfo seems to discuss a very small number of schools in the DL kingdom and the schools discussed are not in the high end (discussions don't focus on the Harvard ALM or the Duke MBA (or even Warrington)... they focus on the UoP and the 4weekBA).

Specific examples... I have yet to hear anyone/anywhere exclaim how easy the MSc from SOAS is or how you can complete the BSc from the London School of Economics in 4 weeks.

 

Vastly inferior? I don't think so, maybe just different. I have spent more years in the United Kingdom (14 of the last 21) than most people on the board so let me add a few things.

Maybe one of the reasons UoL isn't more popular "on the western side of the big pond" is due to cultural differences. For example, how far would their law degree get me in the USA? It might get me a corporate position with a company like Lear who has European operations. My interest is HRM and the British approach can be quite different. In fact, I don't see that UoL even offers a HRM degree. Perhaps one reason is because UK HR professionals are usually not degreed; they earn credentials through specialized education and examination.

UoL is a great institution, but when examining the degree programs they offer, the cultural differences are quite widespread.

 

Actually, the Harvard Extension ALM has been discussed here more than once. Considering you pretty much need to live near Cambridge to participate, I think it's been discussed way out of proportion to its feasibility for the great majority of people here. I speculate that a lot of people just like the idea of maybe getting a Harvard degree (not that I blame them), which fuels the discussions.

The Duke program comes in at about $100,000 to start, and admission is fiercely competitive. Again, not practical to many people that come here.

Discussions focus on UoP (and TESC, Regents, COSC, etc.) because that's the whole purpose of this forum....distance learning.


Bruce