Value in online PhD for teaching?

Hello everyone! Is there value (ROI) in a PhD from NorthCentral or Capella?

I have been reading threads that suggest that getting a PhD from an online institution is pretty much worthless if you want to teach. I know that there are always exceptions to the rule though... I assume that online colleges would except your online degree and allow you to teach for them.

I want to teach, but think that online adjunct teaching is the way to go. I would keep my day job and supplement my income with adjunct instructing (maybe 10 to 15 courses a year if I am lucky).

I know that teaching jobs are becoming very competitive and a PhD is almost a requirement. I hope to start teaching after I complete my dual masters from Webster this year. I am trying to decide if there is value in going on for a PhD in Project Management or stick with the masters.

Does anyone think that a PhD is a must and is there a decent ROI?

 

There are many people teaching at community colleges and four-year colleges with Nova, Capella, and other DL PhD's. There is a well-respected four-year college near me. One day while perusing their web site I started reading the biographies of the school's staff. I was surprised to see a number of Nova and Capella doctoral degree holders teaching there. Most likely, these instructors were hired at the masters level and went on to earn the PhD while already working for the school.

 

AV8R is right. At my school, that is what is happening. I work at a community college and many folks are continuing their education online for they are teaching 5-6 classes a semester. The number of PhDs on staff also makes the college look better in the eyes of the accreditor (not my words, our chancellor).

 

Don't the regional accreditators require colleges and universities to have a certain percentage of their faculty to have doctorates? What is that percentage and how did that rule come about?

 

Nova is not really a "DL" school. They have a huge campus in South Florida and have been around for years. Just because some one has a DBA from Nova does not automatically mean it is DL.

 

I am not sure on that one. I think, and I am so speculating, that for four year colleges and universities there is a percentage, but for community colleges, I have no idea. I am sure Dr Bear or Dr Douglas know, but I surely do not.

 

Dr. Bear or someone else can correct this if it's inaccurate, but here are teaching requirements at the collegiate level:

• PhD: The teaching of graduate students requires the instructor to hold a doctorate with a specialization in the discipline to be taught.
  .
• BA or BS: Teaching at the Bachelors level requires 18 graduate-level credits in the discipline to be taught. Many schools prefer a Masters degree.
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• AA: Teaching at the AA level requires 18 graduate-level credits in the discipline to be taught.
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• AS: Teaching at the AS level requires an AS in the discipline to be taught. Many schools prefer instructors to have extensive industry experience and sometimes require a Bachelors in the discipline to be taught.
  .
• AAS: unknown requirements -- but it's a little less than an AS.

Getting back to the original question: Having a regionally accredited online doctorate would open up doors to teach at the graduate level, which would otherwise be closed.

 

All true...but I think in the case I was referring to it is safe to assume that they went the DL route. All of them had local bachelors and masters degrees and then Nova doctorates. The chance that all of these guys decided to complete doctorates full-time at the Florida campus is pretty remote.

 

I would say the AS and AAS are the same. Usually the difference in the degree is a math requirement from what I have seen in Florida CC's.

 

What about the ROI for obtaining a online PhD? I cannot afford to pursue additional education unless I can justify it financially.

Let's say a PhD at NorthCentral runs around 30k. Do you think it is feasible for someone to earn enough doing adjunct instruction or do you think that the market is too competitive for a person with an online PhD to get any adjunct positions?

I ask because I respect this forum.

 

That's a very difficult question for readers to answer because there are too many unknown variables in your life that aren't listed here.

If you obtain a regionally accredited online doctorate, then nobody can ever take it away from you. It's also difficult to calculate a ROI when over 50% of all aspiring doctoral applicants quit once they get to the dissertation, even after spending a couple of years doing the coursework that leads up to it. The other 50% who do obtain a regionally accredited doctorate won't be guaranteed riches either, but they will have a large fishing pole (the doctorate) that nobody can ever take away from them -- and that fishing pole is almost a guarantee that they'll be able to catch some fish -- but how many fish? That's the ROI question that is impossible to answer for you on this forum. Too little is known about you -- and with so little information about your personal and professional variables, it's impossible to estimate a ROI for a doctorate that most people never finish.

 

It depends what you do for a living and the hours you are planning to invest in a PhD at NCU. There is also the timing issue.

Let's say that you invest 3 years of your life working 20 hours a week towards your PhD at an online school like NCU. That is 20x52x3= 3120 hours. Even if your opportunity cost is $20 an hour that is about 62K of your time on top of the 30k of tuition fees so you are looking to about 100K of investment.

If you are willing to work 20 hours a week as an adjunct you are looking at about 20-30K a year extra because of your teaching. You also have the timing factor, I teach at two online schools but I got them about 8 years ago and this was because my master. I currently hold a doctorate and have not been able to get more online teaching work in spite my experience.

If you look at the numbers, because online programs at Capella and NCU are flexible and allow fast completion times, you also have graduates in the order of hundreds per year from these schools. Traditional schools graduate only few per year so this tells me that it wouldn't take more than 10 years before the market would be so saturated that either schools would start paying less for online adjuncts or just would be too hard to get jobs.

So in few words, there is always a risk that you would finish the PhD and not be able to get back your 100K in investment (Time and money).

In my opinion, the motivation to get an online PhD should be more than just getting your ROI. You should do it for personal improvement and because the desire to learn more. If you are looking for better ROI investment opportunities for cash on the side, I think that there are better and cheaper opportunities by getting businesses certifications such CFP, CPA, real estate valuation and others.

 

I wonder if this 50% applies to Capella and NCU. I would expect higher completion rates at online schools as they are more flexible programs and their systems encourage completion.

 

These are great points. I have gotten my teaching with a masters and would assume I will have more opportunity with a PhD (but who knows). How much have you earned with a masters teaching? Have you tried to apply for any teaching positions?

How about this - get some teaching gigs with a masters to fund the PhD!

 

I have applied to many online schools, the PhD helped me to find a community college job and an adjunct position at a local University. The problem is that I teach IT, I was hired in the last two years and trained to teach at two online schools but IT courses seem to have drained out so they cannot give me any course.

In my opinion it is easier to find a job at a local school than an online gig. Online schools are very well known now and with the advent of of online PhDs is going to get harder to get them. In addition, salaries are just getting too low and with no benefits.

At the end, it is a win to win situation for the online school, they charge a small fortune for the online PhD and then pay peanuts to the same graduates to keep teaching more PhDs.

An online PhD has little use in industry other than dressing to a resume. If the motivation is extra cash, I wouldn't bother with it, I would go for a business certification instead.

Online PhDs prove to be beneficial for those already in the education business and that just need a paper qualification for a higher salary or promotion. In addition, I don't think that online institutions offering doctoral education will keep getting the same demand in 10 years from now, the market is too limited and it won't take long before students realize that is not worth the money.

 

You really hit the nail on the head with the above assessments. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the next 10 years.

Ego and pride will always keep PhD programs full. Always! Historically, doctoral holders have always remained less than one percent of the population; however, if it ever exceeds one percent of the population, it will be very interesting to note; and it would be interesting to see if it's due to the advent of online doctoral programs!

Contrary to popular belief, regionally accredited online doctoral programs are not easier, although students may gravitate towards them due to this misnomer. Students must be fluid in the proper application of quantitative and qualitative methods -- and the dissertation committee will ensure that the proper amount of academic hazing is applied. That kind of application can [figuratively] reach into the stratosphere. Sooooo many students with noble ideas, coupled with the pride of potentially getting a PhD, are rudely awakened to the dirty little secret that isn't revealed until the bitter end (for those who don't get a degree) or the bittersweet end (for those who are awarded a PhD): that the dissertation process is demanding, difficult, confusing, time consuming, and financially and emotionally draining! You can read forums like this to get a glimpse of the grueling dissertation process, but you will never fully appreciate it until you've successfully gone through it -- or unsuccessfully tried to go through it, only to walk away or get washed out of the program without getting a degree.

Remember: 50% to 70% of doctoral students are never awarded a doctorate, depending on the institution. That means that there are quite a few former doctoral students out there that never got a doctorate, although they enrolled to do so. Repeat: they are out there and there are many of them!

It's highly unlikely that those schools would ever release that kind of information because if students knew that their chance of graduating with a PhD was only 30% to 49% (depending on the institution), they would be less likely to enroll, which would decrease enrollments (and which would decrease cash flow) for the institutions. These institutions thrive on incoming students for sustainability. Nonetheless, it would be very interesting to know if any online doctoral programs have a graduation rate of more than 50% for all doctoral students who enroll.

 

I have a question. Maybe those who are currently teaching will have an answer or maybe those who are hoping to teach might have an opinion.

There is a monetary gain from online teaching. Maybe it is getting slimmer as competition for positions increases. But maybe there is another gain. Maybe being a faculty member of a university, any university, is a plus in the larger job world. Maybe taking a teaching job is a loss leader for someone who is interested in establishing themselves as an expert or whatever.

"I am an instructor at XYZ University" Maybe it's just a resume garnish for some.

Could this be true?

 

My current employer knows I teach online but has no idea how many classes I teach. I won't want them to think I have a "part-time job". I would only list teaching on resumes for a teaching job. I just enjoy teaching and enjoy the money. I see it as a hobby that I get paid for rather then a hobby I need to pay for.

 

Baby I need to get one of those kinda hobbies. All of mine are the other kind.

 

Well, my wife has the other kind and my kind help support her kind
I was curious just how much I made in the past 3 years teaching so I pulled out my old tax returns and I will say this - in three years my masters and PhD is paid for plus a bit more.