Bashing the Non-RA's

I am new to this board and I read many of the posts with a great deal of interest. I also laughed at some of the more humorous posts and petty fights.

I graduated from a non-RA school (CCU) and have never once been denied employment based on this degree. What's more, I was up front about how I earned the degree. The companies are all fortune 500 to fortune 100 type by the way, not small family owned operations.

After earning my CCU undergrad, I enrolled in a DETC program with California National University for Advanced Studies (M.S. in Human Resources). I have once course left and I will be done with that program. Once completed, I plan on enrolling at Capella for a PhD in Organizational Psychology - and yes Capella has already said they would accept my DETC degree.

I grew up on welfare and needless to say was very, very poor. At the time I earned my CCU degree, it was the only one I could afford. I am not ashamed of it whatsoever at all. One of President Bush's newest apointees is a graduate of CCU - http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/02/20010228-2.html

Anyway, just wanted to throw in my two cents. Thanks to Dr. John Bear for all of his great posts.

 

Sorry, wrong URL. Here is the correct one:


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/04/20010418-2.html

 

If true, congratulations on parlaying your eductional background. Let's hope the CCU degree (or the master's, for that matter) never causes you trouble.

But this is all predicated on whether or not you've done these things. There is a thread on another section of the board about anonymous posters. My feeling is that your anecdotal experiences simply do not count because no one can verify them because of your anonymity. A nice story, but it doesn't give any weight to the argument supporting the value of a CCU degree. See, the story doesn't have an author.

Rich Douglas

 

But this is all predicated on whether or not you've done these things. There is a thread on another section of the board about anonymous posters. My feeling is that your anecdotal experiences simply do not count because no one can verify them because of your anonymity. A nice story, but it doesn't give any weight to the argument supporting the value of a CCU degree. See, the story doesn't have an author.

Rich Douglas[/B][/QUOTE]

Anonymity? My name is Robert Kelling and I live in Lansing, Illinois. What are you going to do, call directory assistance or want/need the name of my company to prove my identity?

Why is it so hard to beleive that someone graduated from CCU and has had no problem with the degree in the working world? Look, employers are looking for people with experience, drive and character. Does the person President Bush appointed have anecdotal experience? Tell you what, send me a personal email and I would be more then happy to give you the name of my employers and you can verify it for yourself if you are so bent on making scurrilous charges. You can also call CCU to see if I am a graduate. As for "worrying about" something happening in the future, you assume I have something to hide. I have nothing to hide here and am up front about how I earned my degree.

 

Of coarse rkelling neglects a couple of important points when linking to the CCU graduate that received appointment. This man received the Congressional Medal of Honor, has a distinguished military and government career and has an RA degree from Excelsior College. No one has said that a state approved degree cannot be over come but why start out at a huge disadvantage? With a RA degree available for as little as $2100, cost is not a reason. Obviously someone who completed a degree years ago when options were limited and it was impossible to know which institutions would later become properly accredited has no choice but to move forward. That in no way makes it a good or crediable choice for perspective students.

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Best Regards,
Dave Hayden

 

One of my New Years resolutions is going to be breaking my habit of responding to notes like this. But that's not until Tues!

It isn't hard to believe at all. It seems that many folks with non-RA degrees are clueless about the corner in which they are painted.

Let me ask you my favorite question: Would you rather have a RA or a non-RA degree?

As I've stated over and over: I've got no problem with *your* or anyone's choice. However, it does an injustice to attempt to justify a non-RA degree - esp. when so many folks read this board for accurate information. And its even worse when it is at the BA level - a foundational degree. To infer that anyone can take the cheaper, faster, easier route of the non-RA and parlay it into a legitmate degreee is an significant overstatment. (I know you didn't say that ... but that's what others read into your post)

Your over-reaction is surprising. Rich made an observation. You are new to this board and your initial post was anonymous. (Thanks for the further info tho.) It is extremely reasonable to expect that posters who are giving advice to consumers be accountable for what they say.

Rich made no charge against you personally. He just pointed out the obvious.

Having said that, let me congragulate you on your good luck of turning your non-RA degree into something better. You did a lot of work.

At the same time, I must point out that you are touting that you are poised to gain admitance to an RA PhD. If your non-RA degree is so helpful, why would an RA degree be preferable now?

As I try to end my posts on subjects like this, please don't take any of this personally. I'm impressed with your tenacity towards life-long learning - a passion that we share. However, I believe it is extremely important to provide accurate and complete information to the many consumers who read this board. My bent just happens to be RA.

Barry Foster

 

At the same time, I must point out that you are touting that you are poised to gain admitance to an RA PhD. If your non-RA degree is so helpful, why would an RA degree be preferable now?

Barry Foster[/B][/QUOTE]

To answer your question, the RA degree is preferable "now" because Capella offers a PhD in the subject area I desire. It is not that far of a commute from Lansing, Illinois to the sites they have selected for short residency.

As for leaving out information on the Bush appointee - the fact is he got a degree from CCU. Some of the posts on this board have intimated that a CCU degree is "less than" or a "ticking time bomb". It is only a time bomb if someone distorts the past or how they got the degree.

It is too bad there are people who have a rather persnickety and arrogant attitude about education. Sounds like a few Frazier Cranes running around, frowning upon others.

 

I am not American, but I have lived there for many years and I feel that country like if it was my own. I graduated from a Mid-West University and I know relatively well the American education system.

One of the aspects that I admired the most about America was precisely the ample spectrum of opportunities available to most ambitious citizens to pursue a good education. From Local Community Colleges and larger State Colleges and Universities to private institutions and even Distance learning opportunities they all seem to have planned their schedules so people can join whenever they wish. Prices, of course, vary but most state universities are easily affordable to American people since they can benefit from Federal Aid or scholarships or grants. And there is always a Community College “around the corner” to get jump started.

Knowing all this, I am perplexed that there are still people that consider non-accredited universities to complete their education. Why would anyone pay money for a degree that is useless? Or why would anyone waste any time studying for a degree which does not have any value?

Cordial greetings

 

Thanks for the reply. To you, it may seem like folks - including me - are being persnickety or even arrogant. Unfortunately, here you are posting on this board - defending your non-RA degree. I'd suspect this isn't the first time either. Plus, I'm confident it won't be the last. You are demonstrating the point: Earn a non-RA degree and you will spend the rest of your life either defending it or hoping others don't notice/don't know better.

Plus, I'd take issue with being persnickety about education. Most of us are life-long learners and love education. Many of us do demand the whole story - not just part of the truth building a straw-man-argument around a rare exception.

Many of the regulars on this board are persnickity about providing good consumer information. For me, this remains the sole reason I continue to post to this board.

It has nothing to do with looking down on you. It is a fact that non-RA degrees lack broad acceptability - the very thing you are facing now on this board as you defend your degree. It has nothing to do with you.

Your non-RA undergrad degree has limited you. (I won't even get into the DETC thing ....) Now perhaps you will never need to go beyond those limits. Fine. But again, perhaps you will. No person knows the next twist in life .... you just don't know.

You never answered my favorite question: Would you prefer a non-RA or a RA degree?

Plus, I'd bet if you looked around a little you could find a non-RA Ph.D. that matches your RA choice.

Barry Foster
(Lots of non-RA degree holders/defenders "forget" to answer that question - which is one reason why it remains one of my favorites.)

 

I realize this question wasn't directed at me, but since my degrees are all unaccredited, I wouldn't mind answering you*, if you'll bite. ;-)

Quinn

* And I promise to not get all defensive.

 

I'm still relatively new as far as posters go. I hold a non-RA graduate degree (Business Administration) from Southwest University. I've said on another post that it is the most regrettable decision I ever make. Now make no mistake about it, I am employed in a senior management capacity in local government. But it was my prior experience that played the key role in my securing the position, not that non-RA MBA. Further, as soon as I discovered the inherent liability of such a degree, I entered the California State University System and pursued a resident Master of Public Administration.

Just a note: The city for which I work specifically requires degrees from accredited institutions. Another note: I belive we owe it to ourselves to keep all our options open. A non-RA degree may or may not work in some settings. I want to have such a significant investment work without questions.

Now, I'm considering a PhD. A non-RA degree is not even an option. I do have teaching aspirations.

I commend the gentleman who completed his CCU program. I understand the economic circumstances that led to that decision. It was similar circumstances that led to my non-RA degree.

Good luck to you in all your endeavors.


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David F

 

Oh Rich.


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A.A., Los Angeles Valley College, General Education, ‘77
B.S., International College, Business Management, ‘01
M.A., University of South Florida, Criminology, Pursuing (2003???)

 

I'm intrigued by this message when I tried to find the official biography of the CCU graduate who heads Selective Service System. Wonder what's going on here? I tried three other official federal appointee biographies, and all were available. (It will be interesting to see if the official biography still includes the CCU degree.)
--------------------------------------------
Biography of Selective Service Director Alfred V. Rascon

NOTE: This page is temporarily unavailable.
For a...paper copy of Mr. Rascon's biography, please send a signed, written request to Office of Public & Congressional Affairs, Selective Service System National Headquarters, Arlington, VA 22209-2425.

 

There will always be indviduals who will be able to demonstrate success with unaccredited or state approved degrees. In some cases they will in fact be successful for a number of reasons. However, these reported successes are generally anectodetal and do not represent the vast majority of individuals who obtain unaccredited degrees and who run into problems.

For the vast majority of individuals the major benefits and rationale of pursuing a degree necessitates a regionally accredited credential. Be circumspect when hearing of the success of this one or that one who possesses unaccredited degrees because this does not generalize to the majority.

The bottomline is that if individuals with unaccredited degrees can demonstrate statistically that the overwhelming majority of people who obtain unaccredited degrees are successful in a number of occupational, academic, and promotional situations, then they have clearly substantiated their position. Otherwise their individual accomplishments and attainments are perceived as emanating from other factors that have not been clearly added to the "equation".

 

That may or may not be true, but I agree with it nonetheless. It's also a very convenient way to write off those who are successful without having to dig any deeper than the hat that contains the card that says "You would have been successful anyway."

The outlier card makes people more comfortable, and so they will continue to play it. It's always good to have an ace up one's sleeve to deal with those who don't fit into the picture.

Quinn

 

Anonymity? My name is Robert Kelling and I live in Lansing, Illinois. What are you going to do, call directory assistance or want/need the name of my company to prove my identity?

Why is it so hard to beleive that someone graduated from CCU and has had no problem with the degree in the working world? Look, employers are looking for people with experience, drive and character. Does the person President Bush appointed have anecdotal experience? Tell you what, send me a personal email and I would be more then happy to give you the name of my employers and you can verify it for yourself if you are so bent on making scurrilous charges. You can also call CCU to see if I am a graduate. As for "worrying about" something happening in the future, you assume I have something to hide. I have nothing to hide here and am up front about how I earned my degree. [/B][/QUOTE]


Who doesn't believe? What charges? Go back and re-read what I said. It didn't have anything to do with the veracity of your post. Rather, I simply pointed out that without independent verification, it is nothing more than a story. It has no weight; personal, unverifiable anecdotes are not evidence. A little sensitive, eh?

Rich Douglas, who finds the idea of a CCU graduate being admitted to a DETC-accredited school and, subsequently, to Capella entirely plausible.

 

Yes, I believe it is factually dangerous to say, "X did it, and therefore, so can Y."

Accreditation serves the purpose of eliminating any detailed per case evaluation. One can be fairly certain that non-accreditation will cause people such as Dr. Bear to look into national appointments of government officials, and probably shake as many trees as he can to get to the truth, such that the individual consideration that was given party X will be tested against informed public opinion.

So, given a situation where we have an RA degree holder and a non-RA degree holder in some public capacity, the non-RA holder will not only have to convince those doing the appointing (which we can assume happened behind closed doors, and over the span of a career), but he will also have to convince all comers -- including Dr. Bear et al, whereas even a moderately competent RA degree holder will only have to convince a small body of instructors and committee members, once and for all time.

That is a real concern for those who would consider that route. I don't recommend the non-RA route to anyone who doesn't like total strangers becoming concerned with their competency. Most people don't enjoy being publicly "outted" or having total strangers test their noses on their CV's, and that's plenty reason enough to opt for RA.

Quinn

 

I visited your site and was warned of a viral infection in one of your graphics. It may simply be that NAV is being overzealous, and detects a signature in a graphic that happens to resemble an infection, but please look into this.

Quinn