Frank Questions About DETC

In another post a new member spoke of completing a graduate program at California College for the Health Sciences. He wanted to pursue doctoral studies, but as one of the group administrators pointed out, Walden, Union and a few others will not accept such a graduate program.

Is there something significantly inferior about DETC accreditation? Are the quality control elements poorer than those of regionally accredited schools? Since DETC schools essentially accredit only masters programs (though I think they're considering some professional doctorates), then such programs are essentially terminal programs, aren't they? It is difficult, after all, to get into a regionally accredited doctoral program -- except by some special dispensation. I mean even schools as unconventional as Walden and Union say "no."

Finally, should the divide be bridged? These multiple tiers of accreditation serve to confuse the public. What is the way out of this mess?


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David F

 

DETC is a recognized accrediting body listed with CHEA and DOE - however they are not regional and some people see them as inferior. For me, the school was what I was looking for. I am happy CCHS and DETC accreditation. Are you attending a DETC school?

 

Understanding "this mess" requires a historical perspective. DETC is a recent newcomer to the accreditation of degree-granting (bachelor's and above) schools. In my opinion, the agency's legacy is based more in consumer protection than assessing academic quality and equivalence. The only reason why there is a gap is because DETC created one (and the USDOE allowed it to happen by permitting DETC to accredit degree-granting schools).

A recent survey showed that many schools will not accept degrees from DETC-accredited schools. But this was not exclusively true. I'm sure the diligent graduate would find an opportunity. Perhaps not an optimal option, but a plausible one. I suspect even some schools that have a stated and/or published policy against it might consider it on a case-by-case basis.

DETC seems particularly mum about this subject. One might think Lambert, et. al. would be working hard to increase the acceptance of degrees from DETC's accredited schools.

Rich Douglas

 

No, I am not attending a DETC school, nor have I ever attended one. However, I have followed several threads of discussions in this forum and the overwhelming number of posts appear to suggest inherent inferiority. I guess I want to know if there is empirical basis for this. Are DETC schools producing less educated graduates? Is it a question of coursework rigor?

As I said before, I think it is confusing for the public. I am looking forward to further comments.

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David F

 

If I understand correctly, Rich, the six regional accreditors make independent decisions about accreditation. There is no single block of guidelines they all follow. However, I believe they do at least meet in some sort of association and there isn't great disparity in terms of their quality control measures. That said, I'm wondering if they would allow DETC to sit at the table with them (or for that matter if the DETC would be interested in joining them as degree-granting counterparts) so that there is at least a common level of quality.

If what you've said about DETC being a protector of the consumer more than an academic standards organization, then I can see the problem.

Finally, it would be so much easier for the public if there was some uniformity in the methods of these accrediting bodies.


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David F

 

Let's put it this way . . . Unrecognized accreditations are lemons, period.

DETC accreditation is like a Chevy, and regional accreditation is like a Cadillac.

Since, unlike a car, you carry a degree through your entire life, the question then becomes whether you would raher be stuck with a Chevy or a Cadillac for your entire life.

- Steve
Owner of 3 . . . Cadillacs

P.S. Yes, we laugh at the guys who are stuck with the Chevys. Why? Because we can.

 

I guess that would make an unaccredited degree a Yugo. Remember those? But I'm not stuck with my Southwest Yugo for the rest of my life. I just kindle a fire in the fireplace (and what an expensive kindler) with mine. OK, OK... so I just pretend it never existed.

Happy New Year!


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David F

 

The important thing is for you to get the degree that fits your lifestyle and needs. Others can call a degree or a chevy but the important thing is what matters to you. Passing judegement is kind of silly to me, but hey, to each his own. I earned my undergrad from Truman College in Chicago and went on to CCHS - worked for me.

Like I said, the DETC program through CCHS worked fine for me and my needs. Many of the courses at DETC schools have been reviewed by ACE (American Council on Education) and can be transferred into other schools. Anyway, hope that helps!

 

Probably, though I'm not sure if that's the point. The point is that colleges and universities in a region saw a need for coordinating their credit transfer policies. So they created a set of standards that they all agreed to recognize. If those standards are met, each school will recognize the others credits. That's what accreditation IS. Regional accrediting associations are associations of schools that have been examined by the others and found to meet those standards.

Then another group came along, set up a different set of standards and some argue that they are just as good. But the cutoff line between what is accepted and what is not accepted has to be established somewhere.

If the regional accreditors decide to recognize DETC credits as a matter of policy, then they are in effect replacing their own standards with those of DETC. So the real question here is why don't the regional accreditors change to DETC's standards?

If that happened, then ACICS will make the exact same arguments that DETC is making. If ACICS standards are accepted, then ACCSCT will make the plea. There will always be schools outside wanting in, claiming that they are just as good. The reductio-ad-absurdem is WAUC. Somebody's gonna get excluded.

So what the regional accreditors do is simply say, here's the standard that we (not you) have set. That standard may have a degree of arbitrariness to it. It may involve academic politics. It will exclude some schools (that's why it exists). It doesn't preclude the existence of alternative standards that are also credible. But you just gotta draw the line somewhere. This is where we chose to draw it.

 

I know the Northcentral Association has published its criteria for accreditation. It's on their website. I'm going to check and see if the DETC has published theirs. Have you or anyone compared the criteria for a regional accreditor with the DETC's? I want to know if there is significant difference in the published standards -- or is it a case where due to their consumer orientation (as suggested by another poster) they have not held member schools to standards that are in fact in place? By that I mean that they may focus on protecting the consumer from fraud etc while ignoring the utility of the final product the consumer receives.

If in fact the DETC administrators are consumer driven, they must be aware that comparatively speaking (and in very general terms, notwithstanding the period exception) that there is much more utility with a regionally accredited degree. I would think therefore that they would seek to streamline their guidelines with regional accreditors and eliminate the problem of transferrability of their members' credits. Then maybe I am being naive. Perhaps it does not matter what the DETC does, they may never be accepted as equals to the regional accreditors.



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David F

 

Earlier this year I spoke with the DETC director concerning doctoral program accredidation. DETC does not have doctoral programs within their charter scope and they don't look to adding them any time too soon. For a current non-RA school that has doctoral program and desire DETC accredation, the following actions must occur:1)Accept no more students into doctoral programs, 2) Graduate out the current students or disenroll them,3) Abandon all doctoral level designated course listings. After all these items are accomplished, then the institution could apply for review. Of course there is no guarantee DETC will even conduct a review.They really don't want to add any diploma mills as "Candidates for Accredidation" status.

Regards,
Dick

 

NO!!!!!! There is nothing inferior about DETC. Keep in mind that RA is a BIG club with many members. Validating DETC -- by accepting degrees and transfer courses creates competion for the RA's. Virtually all employers will accept a DETC degree, PERIOD.

I recently completed a labor market survey (as a professional consulting assignment from The U.S. Dept. of Labor, Office of Workers Compensation) of 28 large Kentucky employers. Only half required an accredited degree and none required the accreditation to be RA. The other half told me that an unaccredited degree would be accepted if that State of which the degree was awarded conducted it's own QA process -- like that of California's.

A small sample but hey I was shocked!!

Regards, Wes

 

Mr. Suhar writes that DETC says that "For a current non-RA school that has doctoral program and desire DETC accredation, the following actions must occur:1)Accept no more students into doctoral programs, 2) Graduate out the current students or disenroll them,3) Abandon all doctoral level designated course listings."

But how do we account for DETC accrediting, this year, the non-RA University of South Africa, and the non-RA Open University of the United States, both of which offer doctoral programs. Ditto with the University of Leicester's Centre for Labour Market Studies, accredited 4 or 5 yars ago by DETC and continuing to offer research doctorates.

 

Isn't Concord provisionally DETC?

 

We all have our reasons for being less than fully objective. Mine is that I have earned an RA accredited Bachelor's degree, a Master's degree from a DETC accredited school, and am finishing up my doctoral program at Capella, an RA accredited school.

You will not find empirical data here. What you will find here is opinion and conjecture. Some opinions are well founded and some mired in bias and prejudice. Some examples will be anecdotal and some, such as the study by John and Rich, will be based in research principles.

There are legitimate reasons to debate the value of DETC accreditation just as there is value in determining the basis upon which an institution might gain DETC accreditation. I am familiar with the DETC accreditation process. I have researched all their standards and policies and have attended a DETC annual conference solely to interview representatives of DETC as well as those accredited by the DETC. Though Rich is correct that years ago much focus was placed on consumer protection, the emphasis now, and for some time, has included academic standards. I would add that DETC continues to include consumer concerns in their accreditation. Something RA accreditation does not do so well.

I am satisfied with what my DETC research revealed to me regarding their process and accreditation standards. I found the only true way to get the information you seek is to first familiarize yourself with the fullness of the DETC standards. You are on the right track. Get the regional standards and the DETC standards and compare for yourself – side by side. Questions can always be raised regarding how strictly standards are adhered to, however this takes one back to the question of biased opinion or empirical data regarding these issues

There are undoubtedly a sizeable number of academic institutions that will not accept DETC degrees or credits. There are undoubtedly some unknown number of companies that will not hire a DETC grad.
However, it seems that for every legitimate call on who will or won't accept a DETC degree, there are claims based on vapor and ignorance.

If you were asking something as mundane as, how many academic institutions will accept DETC degrees, we can thank Rich and John for offering up some empirical data on that. But you are asking something much more complex. Something for which you will get much in the way of opinion, but little in the way of empirical data.

As a side note, not long ago, when the DETC accredited the JD program at Concord, one prominent alt.education.distance regular anounced that single act to be the final nail in coffin for the DETC. Proclaiming from the pulpit that the DETC had finally made its fatal mistake. Apparently ignorant of the fact that, according to US DoEd regulations, the DETC is required to first accredit out of its "scope" in order to demonstrate its ability to effectively do so. It is further interesting to note that, after the passage of time and after review of this DETC action by the appropriate board at the DoEd, recommendation will be made to the Secretary of Education to officially recognize the expansion of the accrediting authority of the DETC to cover first professional degrees, such as the JD. Despite the proclamation of the learned, the coffin is still slightly ajar.

So what’s the point. The bias here is thick and the track record of misinformation is well established. If you really want the facts, get a hold of the complete standards and do a few interviews.

For those ready to pounce, remember, the question was not about opinions on former, current, or future DETC accredited institutions, it was whether or not DETC schools are producing less educated graduates?

 

Well I guess someone changed their minds since May of 2001.

Regards,
Dick

 

For those ready to pounce, remember, the question was not about opinions on former, current, or future DETC accredited institutions, it was whether or not DETC schools are producing less educated graduates?

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What a great post. As for me, I am happy with my CCHS degree, that is DETC accredited. At the time I was looking for a graduate degree, CCHS offered the subject matter, price and so forth that I was looking for. It was important for me to have an accredited degree and CCHS fit the bill.

The real question, as you pointed out is - "Are DETC grads less educated?". Well, that is up to who is doing the judging. What I think is wrong is to just reject a person out of hand because he/she is a DETC graduate.

The DETC is listed as an accrediting body with CHEA and UDdoE- just as the RAs are. For me, and many others, that is good enough. For others however, it is considered a "lesser" degree. Oh well - to each his own.

 

Interesting. Of course, DETC does not have a candidacy status, so certainly this statement didn't come from anyone at DETC. (Especially, I would hope, Michael Lambert.

Rich Douglas

 

This is interesting... per my previous reply to John Bear in May I spoke with Susan Reilly if anyone would like to follow-up.

According the the DETC homepage reference is made to some foreign members bur they do not appear on the accredited instutions listings. All the schools that do appear on the lists do not grant Doctorates.

When I spoke with Susan, reference was made to "Professional" programs beyond the Master's level and she spoke of a pilot program looking at some legal program. This might be the Concord program you refer to.
She indicated no potential to accredite overseas programs. But then again what does she know ... She's only the Director of Accredidation

Regards,
Dick

 

DETC lists a number of foreign degree granting institutions: Azaliah College (as opposed to university), Canadian School of Management, International Management Centres, Rhodec International and the University of Leicester's Centre for Labour Market Studies. UNISA is not listed.

While the University of Leicester definitely grants doctorates, the DETC accreditation seems to extend to just the one centre which apparently doesn't.
http://www.detc.org/content/degree.html