There is a new conservatory of music opening up in the Spring of 2002. The "brick and mortar" location is North Carolina and New York. The curriculum seems to be about 85% distance learning and 15% traditional. The program is fairly innovative in the world of professional musical performance training. I am, of course, a little bit skeptical. It seems legit, but at the same time, there is something about it that just bothers me. (I was trained in a traditional conservatory of music.) Does anyone know anything about this? Is this a legit place to get a music degree? Here is their web site. http://easternconservatory.mainpage.net
The address is apparently a private home. And, taking a page from the Levicoff Detective Manual, I called the phone number at 3 am, North Carolina time. The phone was answered by a man who rather groggily said, "Hello." Cause for some concern.
Why, John, I'm honored! Two other items of note . . . The address of the "school" reverses to the residence of one Addie Farrish (who is not listed under the administrative section of the web site). And the fax number listed on their web site reverses to (drum roll . . .) the local Kinko's Copy Center on Tate Street in Greensboro. What irks me about this particular degree mill is that they are obviously gearing themselves to an African-American constituency. Most degree mills are happy ripping off anyone; few target themselves to specific audiences, let alone minority audiences. Moreover, I doubt that the legitimate United Church of Christ denomination would be pleased to read the school's claims of U.C.C. affiliation.
Deja vu all over again. Former denizens of AED may recall an interesting fellow named Terry Poteat from Greensboro, who seemed to be honestly trying to start the world's first distance school of performing arts. See http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=40f6aaee53789272&rnum=1 and http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=954b16276de1aff7&rnum=3 . For picture of Terry, see http://www.masterpiece-records.com/joyfulpraise.html
I am replying to the previous post in regards to Eastern Conservatory. One main item that needs to be addressed is "will open in April 2002". This means that there are presently no students engaging in study and we are not providing any instruction. We will however be relocating to our offices in late February. Until this time we are working out of the home of one of our board members. At times I will forward the phone number to my home when I am working late there and sometimes I have forgotten to forward it back when I'm done. That is why you (Dr. Bear) received an answer when you rang the number the other night. Which also explains why our fax line right now is at our local kinkos. All of this is temporary until we move into our offices. It is not our plan to operate out of a residence once we are in our offices. Additionally we will be holding some residential classes onsite and at our local cultural arts center (for rehearsals, etc.) I would be glad to talk to anyone concerning Eastern Conservatory and our future plans as an untraditional music school. I have learned by investigating this group however that it is quite interesting in that it recognizes any school that is not regionally accredited as a degree mill. In our case I resent that because there are requirements and work that the student will complete. Not to mention that the instructors that we have acquired thus far are more than qualified (the majority hold the DMA or other terminal degree). This is not one of those pay for a diploma type school. But I find it pointless to try and defend Eastern Conservatory less only to address the specific comments that were made. Only time will prove the worth and reputation of Eastern Conservatory. Until then I suppose everyone will hold to their own opinions.
I particularly like the second thread-- especially the part discouraging applications from "Columbia State [et al]" paper holders. Care to guess where Poteat claims degrees from?
Welcome to the board! However, there are a few errors in your assumption. First, this "group" is pretty eccletic. You'll find many diverse opinions expressed. An expectation of finding group consensus is going to bring disappointment. Second, I don't recall a post that claimed that lack of regional accreditation (RA) makes the school a degree mill. But perhaps I missed it .... Third - for myself - the lack of RA doesn't mean rigor is not in the program, or that the teachers are qualified, etc., etc. (Of course the opposite is true as well: The lack of RA doesn't mean that rigor is built into the program.) A non-RA degree has significant limitations in regards to portability and acceptability - with most of the risk on the consumer, not the school. Personally, I'm happy to see your post on this board - contributing to the conversation about your school. I wish we could have more dialogue like this - where we actually have discussions with "officials" from the schools. It would add some value to this board, the consumers' understanding, and maybe even to your program. My biggest concern is this: I don't see a clear "warning" to your customers re: lack of proper accreditation - and the risks they are assuming. Why not bring it all into the open so that prospective students can know of the consequences of an unaccredited "degree"? To me this would at least be upfront with your customers. From what you wrote, you give the impression that you are planning on taking the DETC route. How far are you in the process? What are your odds of success? Where do you anticipate the most challenges? Barry Foster
Every year around this time I dust off my old baritonr ukulele and try once more to play "Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas," all the way through without mistakes. I have yet to succeed. This is the extent of my musical talent and ambition. That said, I would find Mr. (or is it Ms.) Eastern Conservatory easier to believe if in their posting they had said anything of substance such as where their offices would be located in late February or if they had even given their name. After all, why would someone who was trying to assert the credibility of their new school choose to post anonymously? Jack
Terry, I'm delighted that you took my bait (I was the one that sent you teh anonymous note about this thread on degreeinfo.com) and had the chutzpah to respond directly. My compliments, bro - most degree mill operators don't have the same degree of balls, and I hope that you will continue to participate in the dialogue. If Eastern Conservatory is as legit as you claim it is, you'll be better off for it. Affirming the others, no one has ever said that a school is automatically a degree mill because it is not regionally accredited. Nor did I call E.C. a diploma mill. If you truly remember your AED history, you'll know that I differ between the terms: a diploma mill requires no work or minimal work; a degree mill requires work, but has one or more qualities that compromise its credibility and integrity. And it is in the latter category that E.C. falls. As you noted, faculty is a major consideration, and your claim of having a qualified faculty is, at this point, unsubstantiated. The solution, I would submit, is quite simple: Publish the names and full credential information on your faculty. (Even the few you have listed as administrative staff, one of whom allegedly holds a D.M.A., do not list the sources of their degrees. Bad omission, sport.) You can be sure, of course, that someone here will randomly check your faculty claims. We have seen cases in the past - MIGS, for example - in which persons listed as faculty members had no clue that they were listed. I hope you don't make the same mistake. Next, there is the matter of your own credentials. Covington Theological Seminary? Alright, since you were ballsy enough to respond here, I'll attempt to stifle my laughter. And Columbia State "College?" Perhaps you'll tell us if this is not Columbia State University that has caused such a laugh riot around here. (And even if your own credentials were legit, no one can start a legitimate degree-granting institution as a one-man show.) For what it's worth, here's my conslusion at this time: You may be a sincere dude that has had, for lack of a better term, an honest "vision" (divine or otherwise) of starting a potentially creative program. But you're unqualified to do so, especially as the guiding light. And I submit, sir, that God is not behind this vision - if He were, He would have found someone with legitimate credentials. (Before you attempt to take the speck out of someone's eye, take the log out of your own, and all that . . .) And my claim still stands about the notion of ripping off African-Americans, even if you are one yourself. Demographically, we are talking about a constituency that is not as hip to the in's and out's of traditional academe as others, and having worked with many storefront churches in the past, I am aware of the proclivity toward bogus credentials. Terry, I think you're actually onto a unique concept here, but don't blow it at this stage of the game by making the same mistakes as the dude down the street who calls himself a bishop. I, for one, look forward to seeing your list of distinguished and talented faculty, with full information on their credentials. And I look forward to your response. You've got brass balls now - don't lose them. But please, bro, do it under your own name - schools do not speak, people do. And if we see a post by Terry Poteat, we'll be delighted to accept it as ex cathedra. And if no one has said it yet, welcome to the forum.
Wouldn't it make more sense to start out by offering non-credit music courses, and temporarily dropping the degree programs? You can ease back into them later, when you have your operation up and running. That way you are not offering unrecognized credentials that might be of questionable use to your students, and you aren't granting college credit that is useless anywhere but at your own school. It would also give you the opportunity to test drive your distance education delivery format and to fine-tune your concept. The idea of a distance education music performance program is pretty innovative and, frankly, it might not work. So you probably shouldn't promise too much while you are still experimenting. And if you are really planning to take this thing to New York City, be aware that the New York State Regents operate perhaps the toughest state approval process in the country. They are going to be demanding, and you will have to have a well organized and tested operation before you approach them.
Since I am prone to typoes myself, I shouldn't pick on those of others. But I just loved this statement from the Eastern Conservatory website: "Applicants under the age of 21 should demonstrate expectional music ability." Does this mean that you expect someday to have musical ability?
I did realize that after I made the earlier post that I did not include my name. I did go back and add a post however it was not on the thread (I have the hang of it now). To address a few items further (and I really did not think I would cause such a riot of post and responses) We will publish a full list of faculty hopefully before the end of the month. We will not post each faculty member as he or she comes along. We are still in the hiring phase and getting a completed application file on everyone. We do not want to publish a faculty members name until we have a signed contract first. In terms of accreditation (here we go) we have followed many of the guidelines they (the DETC) setworth and implemented them into our policies. Honestly though, not really to pursue their accreditation in the future but it was basically a personal decision. As I have watched the DETC and the new schools that they accredit, I am not to sure if they would work for us. It is funny to to see that still some traditional schools don't recognize (as far as transfer credits are concerned) accreditation from their schools. Then there's CITA. This has been my project for the last month. Certainly a possibility, but can get a little confusing because they comprise officials from all of the regional accredition agencies. We want NASM accreditation but at the present I have not been able to talk with anyone out of that office to see if they would accredit a school like ours. By the way, the school has a Board of Directors and is not ran by one person. Further we have a legal affairs person as well outsourcing a school consulting firm that aids in many areas of school operation. As far as Dr. Poteat's credentials as concerned, I believe the source of your information is a little outdated. He did at one time engage in a Doctor of Ministry in Music program from them (Covington whatever they are now) and became unpleased with the program. I personally talked him into dropping the program (I just don't believe in taking mostly 500-600 level courses for a doctorate and not having to produce some type of research at the end, not to mention courses that did not coincide with the overall purpose of the program) so that is what he did. I know he has more than one undergraduate degree but Columbia State University is not one of them. Now I am not a distance ed. guru like you guys but even I know about them - reasons why we as new schools now fall under the magnifying glass so quickly. I hold degrees from the University of London and my Ph.D. is from the University of New England. At any rate all students and potential students will be advised of our accreditation and how this will affect their choice of Eastern Conservatory as their school of choice. This school has just changed its name and officially became a non-profit organization on the 11th of December. So we still have a lot of ground to cover in order to make our spring 2002 opening. We will no doubt have some growing pains as a new school (especially these first 2 years) but nonetheless we have a strong administration and board and we are moving forward. I will visit this board some as well to participate in these discussions, as time permits. As a final note to Steve, as a northerner myself, when I first got your e-mail I was very taken and almost enraged, but I actually tried to write you back. It did not go through. I did thank you in the e-mail for providing the address of this site so that I may respond accordingly (also eases my mind now that I know who sent it) Until next time, enjoy the holiday and Happy New Year! Peter Osterling, PhD.
There is a substantial base of outstanding teaching talent in nearby Winston-Salem: the North Carolina School of the Arts (www.ncarts.edu). NCARTS provides residential high school through masters-level programs in the performing arts. The college-level programs are SACS-accredited. I wonder if there is any intent to poach/borrow/steal from that faculty base. One could hardly find any greater contrast in teaching performing arts than NCARTS and Eastern Conservatory. OT: Winston-Salem is also home to Wake Forest University and Salem College, the later being the first women's college in the U.S., begun by the Moravian settlers there. Winston-Salem State University (as the former Winston-Salem State Teachers College) was the first traditionally black institution in the US to offer teaching credentials for the elementary grades. Okay, it is my home town; so there! Aren't you sorry you asked? Wait...you didn't ask.
As I recall, Peter, I asked not only about the source of your Ph.D., but for the specific field. Since you did not include this, I am reminded of Dana Carvey saying, as the Church Lady, "How conveeeeeenient." Now, let's try again . . . In what field did you earn your Ph.D.? And since, as provost, you are presumably familiar with the credentials of "Doctor" Poteat, perhaps you'll enlighten us as to the corrected information on his credentials, including the source of his undergrad degrees (if not Columbia State) and the source of his D.M.A., which is presumably the primary credential that would qualify him to serve in his position. Incidentally, I find a bit of deja vu in noting that the first time I heard a rather profound expression, it happened to come from the "bishop" of an African-American storefront church. Before he left to become a highly placed honcho in the ministry of Rev. Ike, he told me, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." I submit, sir, that you are not doing a very good job of either at this point.
