Getting Published

**Woho** · 03-24-2009 04:22 PM

I just saw a very interesting conversation taking place over at another thread about academic publishing and getting published in journals (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=30428).

To move it not totally of topic I thought I better start a new one - this one:
I'm right now writing/finishing my thesis (incl. some original research) and thinking about getting published.
So my question is to the more experienced guys around here:

Are there any good suggestions and ideas you have for others on their way to their first publication?

**Go_Fishy** · 03-24-2009 04:57 PM

Yes. Don't aim too high. Your first paper doesn't have to be published in Science or Nature.

Usually, a paper has to go through a number of revision processes (not only form - often even content!) before a publication accepts it. Lesser known publications tend to make this process less frustrating and often support their authors better. If you have local (state based) professional organizations around you, that's a great start - they often have small publications with exactly the right audience for you.

Also keep in mind that a conference paper can be a great alternative that is less time-consuming and often a lot of fun.

**bazonkers** · 03-24-2009 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Go_Fishy

Also keep in mind that a conference paper can be a great alternative that is less time-consuming and often a lot of fun.

How does a conference paper differ and what makes it less time-consuming from a journal paper? I always thought conference papers were simply journal papers that were a work in progress but would still require quite a large investment of time.

**John Bear** · 03-24-2009 05:11 PM

It has always been tough, and in recent years, almost impossibly so. Two quick stories, then a practical suggestion.

During the years my daughter Mariah was acquisitions editor at Ten Speed Press (recently bought by Random House), they were publishing roughly 100 new titles a year. More than half were new books from existing authors (like me). So maybe 40 new authors. They averaged about 100 submissions a day. 25,000 a year.

When our first book was accepted by Harcourt, Marina and I had the grand tour of the premises in New York. In the 'over the transom' (unsolicited manuscript) department, we met the four young ladies, each a year or two out of Vassar or Bennington or Radcliffe, each of whom was responsible for dealing with 100 manuscripts a day. They had the power to reject (an average of 95 a day) or pass along to a higher level. Of course many manuscripts can be rejected from page one alone . . . but this also helps explain why there are so many 'Gone With the Wind' stories -- rejected dozens of times.

So then what? Self publishing and on-line publishing have become more and more respectable, and more and more achievable in recent years. Not vanity publishing, however. From all that I have been reading , three of the best and most respected of such publishing services are lulu, xlibris, and iUniverse. A fourth, more for art and photo books, is blurb. And the website and publications of Dan Poynter are invaluable for one considering this path.

And it is still the case that traditional publishers remain interested in taking over self-published books, if they have already found a market, however small. Ten Speed's all-time best-seller (over 10 million to date), What Color is Your Parachute was originally self-published, as were two of their other million-selling books, White Trash Cooking and How to Shit in the Woods. So, indeed, was the original Bear's Guide book, which I did myself for about ten years before they came to me.

Very few doctoral dissertations become #1 New York Times bestsellers -- as did Clarissa Estes' Union Institute thesis, Women Who Run With the Wolves. But many of them deserve to be out there, available to the public, stores, and libraries. Good luck!

lulu: www.lulu.com
iuniverse: www.iuniverse.com
xlibris: www2.xlibris.com/
blurb: www.blurb.com
Poynter: www.parapublishing.com

**RFValve** · 03-24-2009 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Woho

I just saw a very interesting conversation taking place over at another thread about academic publishing and getting published in journals (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=30428).

To move it not totally of topic I thought I better start a new one - this one:
I'm right now writing/finishing my thesis (incl. some original research) and thinking about getting published.
So my question is to the more experienced guys around here:

Are there any good suggestions and ideas you have for others on their way to their first publication?

Try some conference papers first. It is always easier to be published at conferences.

Coauthor with a very well known professor in the area, if the paper has the seal of a known professor, this paper has a good chances of getting approve only because credibility. That is why so many people do post docs, if the post doc is with an authority, that can be the ticket to many good publications.

Don't set your expectations high if you work full time, top journals have very low acceptance rates and people that get published have plenty time to make a good paper.

Try to publish in teams and not as an individual, working in teams can make a better paper and can be a good motivator.

Try to get your school to fund your research, publishing can be expensive and funding might be the only way to get a good publication.

It is ok if you have few publications in junk journals and conferences as long as you have at least few in good publications in top journals. Many times, the volume can attract the attention of a hiring committee but if the quality is only junk, it will be trashed for sure.

The safest way to go is to get a paid position as a researcher (Post doc), that will easy the financial stress that you normally have if you work at CCs or adjunct and can help you to produce good publications. The problem is that Post docs pay 35-40K and this can be a substantial pay cut not including the fact that you are only on a short term contract. In addition, even post docs require some publications but don't have to be from top journals.

**guitarmark2000** · 03-24-2009 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by John Bear

lulu: www.lulu.com
iuniverse: www.iuniverse.com
xlibris: www2.xlibris.com/
blurb: www.blurb.com
Poynter: www.parapublishing.com

Great stuff - for the eBook-minded, there is also Amazon's Digital Text Platform for publishing on the Kindle (there is also an iPhone reader available too).

https://dtp.amazon.com/mn/signin

Here's a helpful publishing guide to those interested, which also shares additional information:

http://www.thinkydink.com/HowToUseAmazonDTP.pdf

**Ian Anderson** · 03-24-2009 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Woho

I just saw a very interesting conversation taking place over at another thread about academic publishing and getting published in journals (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=30428).

To move it not totally of topic I thought I better start a new one - this one:
I'm right now writing/finishing my thesis (incl. some original research) and thinking about getting published.
So my question is to the more experienced guys around here:

Are there any good suggestions and ideas you have for others on their way to their first publication?

What is the topic of your thesis?

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**friendorfoe** · 03-25-2009 05:50 AM

Thanks Dr. Bear, that was very helpful for me at least.

**Woho** · 03-25-2009 06:08 AM

Thanks a lot for all your great comments.
@ Ian: It's more social science related, dealing about a very special part of last year's presidential campaign strategies. Actually that's a bit troubling to me. I could adapt my research part by changing the introductionional parts to quite a few different areas.

What is actually the deal about the "University Press" market (eg Oxford University Press)? Most authors seem to be already at the "Professor" level but are not really associated with the University itself.

**Stanislav** · 03-25-2009 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Woho

What is actually the deal about the "University Press" market (eg Oxford University Press)? Most authors seem to be already at the "Professor" level but are not really associated with the University itself.

I have no idea, but apparently getting a book out with a "good" "UP" is a de-facto minimum tenure requirement in humanities and social sciences . The Chronicle of Higher Education ( http://chronicle.com )has a thriving forum dealing a lot with this very issue.

**Ian Anderson** · 03-25-2009 07:27 AM

One of the worlds best known engineering reliability authors (his major book is published by Wiley) has published books using lulu
http://www.pat-oconnor.co.uk/books.html
And I bought one of his Lulu books (in my case via download).

I am contemplating publishing a book using Lulu.
Lulu details at:
http://www.lulu.com/

**ebbwvale** · 03-25-2009 12:27 PM

I have been published five times in international peer reviewed journals. The articles were a lot of work. The guidelines for publication can be found on the particular journal's website.

Basically, there are two forms of journals. Those that are free and accessible to all. They are usually run as university journals and their aim is the spread of knowledge. The editor is usually an advanced student. The second is the more professional journal that is intended for a professional group, although there are a lot of academic articles in these journals. These journals are usually subscribed to.

While the journal article is good exposure, the conference is a good place for distance learners. It exposes you to feedback at an advanced level beyond what universities could generally supply. The audience is usually a mix of academia and professional. You may even get media. This answers the usual criticism of distance learning that seems to occur in the United States. It also allows networking with people who have a strong interest in your topic area.

Conferences generally have two forms of papers. The first is merely presented by the author and he/she is subject to a Q&A session by the audience via a chairperson. The second paper is subjected to peer review as well as the other experience. The peer reviewed papers are then published as conference papers. Sometimes all papers are published anyway.

I have done both journals and conferences. The written material in a journal will give you contact with like minded people who will contact you to discuss your publication. Journal papers may take a year or more before they appear in print. My recommendation is that you do both.

Some universities are now offering Doctorates by way of publication. This usually means a series of papers running along an allied theme and a final connecting paper. I received a Masters Degree using this format. It is harder than doing the thesis the traditional way. You are marked by reviewers and examiners. A lot of rewrites and waiting.

**RoscoeB** · 03-25-2009 02:56 PM

A few resources:

* Some Pentecostal scholars have turned to self-publishing and co-publishing for various reasons. Check out:

Whither Pentecostal Scholarship?
The overlap between people with the Spirit and people with Ph.D.'s.
By Arlene M. SÁnchez Walsh | posted 5/01/2004
Link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/...jun/21.34.html

* Piers Anthony's Internet Publishing
Offers reviews of POD (Publish-On-Demand) publishers and printers. I have submitted info to him in the past.
Link: http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html#L1

* Writer Beware
Warnings About Literary Fraud and Other Schemes, Scams, and Pitfalls That Target Writers
Link: http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/

* Preditors & Editors
A guide to publishers and writing services for serious writers!
Also gives reliable info on publishing scams, mills, etc.
Link: http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/

**Go_Fishy** · 03-25-2009 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by bazonkers

How does a conference paper differ and what makes it less time-consuming from a journal paper? I always thought conference papers were simply journal papers that were a work in progress but would still require quite a large investment of time.

Well, they are an investment of time, but there are a lot of conference out there, and every conference can accommodate more contributions than a journal. Plus, conferences have traditionally been a platform more suitable for the emerging scholar; some even have their own graduate student forums, where recent grads and grad students can present their work without having to compete with the big guns.

Originally Posted by RFValve

It is ok if you have few publications in junk journals and conferences as long as you have at least few in good publications in top journals. Many times, the volume can attract the attention of a hiring committee but if the quality is only junk, it will be trashed for sure.

In my experience (and my field), there are very few junk journals, except you consider publications primarily a means of marketing yourself. Other than that, any journal that is read by people interested in your field can be a good platform.

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**TCord1964** · 03-25-2009 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by John Bear

It has always been tough, and in recent years, almost impossibly so. Two quick stories, then a practical suggestion.

During the years my daughter Mariah was acquisitions editor at Ten Speed Press (recently bought by Random House), they were publishing roughly 100 new titles a year. More than half were new books from existing authors (like me). So maybe 40 new authors. They averaged about 100 submissions a day. 25,000 a year.

When our first book was accepted by Harcourt, Marina and I had the grand tour of the premises in New York. In the 'over the transom' (unsolicited manuscript) department, we met the four young ladies, each a year or two out of Vassar or Bennington or Radcliffe, each of whom was responsible for dealing with 100 manuscripts a day. They had the power to reject (an average of 95 a day) or pass along to a higher level. Of course many manuscripts can be rejected from page one alone . . . but this also helps explain why there are so many 'Gone With the Wind' stories -- rejected dozens of times.

So then what? Self publishing and on-line publishing have become more and more respectable, and more and more achievable in recent years. Not vanity publishing, however. From all that I have been reading , three of the best and most respected of such publishing services are lulu, xlibris, and iUniverse. A fourth, more for art and photo books, is blurb. And the website and publications of Dan Poynter are invaluable for one considering this path.

And it is still the case that traditional publishers remain interested in taking over self-published books, if they have already found a market, however small. Ten Speed's all-time best-seller (over 10 million to date), What Color is Your Parachute was originally self-published, as were two of their other million-selling books, White Trash Cooking and How to Shit in the Woods. So, indeed, was the original Bear's Guide book, which I did myself for about ten years before they came to me.

Very few doctoral dissertations become #1 New York Times bestsellers -- as did Clarissa Estes' Union Institute thesis, Women Who Run With the Wolves. But many of them deserve to be out there, available to the public, stores, and libraries. Good luck!

lulu: www.lulu.com
iuniverse: www.iuniverse.com
xlibris: www2.xlibris.com/
blurb: www.blurb.com
Poynter: www.parapublishing.com

There actually isn't much difference between vanity publishing and self publishing. The most important qualities to look for in a publisher:

1. Will your book have distribution? If bookstores and online booksellers can't order your book, you don't have book distribution. Unfortunately, for many vanity presses and self publishers, the books are only available through the publisher's web site, and maybe Amazon (anyone can list anything on Amazon).

2. Is the book returnable? If bookstores can't return unsold books to the distributor, most bookstores won't touch it.

3. Will it be marketed? Publish with a self publisher like Xlibris or IUniverse, and you're on your own as far as promoting your book. If you do get marketing services, you'll have to pay extra for that, too.

There is nothing wrong with self publishing. For some authors with niche books without wide appeal, it is appropriate. If you want to write the next Bear's Guide or Chicken Soup for the Soul and have a real stab at penetrating the marketplace, then that is not the option for you.

**Ian Anderson** · 03-25-2009 08:57 PM

Back around 1969 I bought a book from MIT Press entitled Project Icarus It was actualy a group thesis on how to protect the earth from a stray asteroid. Several years later I worked with one of the students who participated in this project and he told me there were not many sales of the report however it ended up being adapted into a succesfull movie by Hollywood.

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