Is There a Difference?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by defii, Nov 29, 2001.

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  1. defii

    defii New Member

    Without oversimplify the matter, it appears that most regionally accredited schools fall into one of three categories: State, Nonprofit, and Proprietary (for profit). Has anyone done any studies or have any opinions (based on observation) as to if any one of these categories of schools tend to be better respected? Comments appreciated.



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    David Fraser
     
  2. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    In general, the most prestigious universities (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Johns Hopkins, etc.) tend to be private universities with substantial history and huge endowments. Many state universities (UC Berkeley, UCLA, Indiana U. Penn State U. and many others) are also very highly regarded.

    Newer, for profit institutions, such as the University of Phoenix and several of the new virtual universities (e.g. Jones International, Capella and others) tend to be less regarded, especially in academia. Some of this can be attributed to the fact that there is no good (valid & reliable)research on how online degrees compare to traditional ones, so many institutions follow the "different is worse" model. for instance, Nova Southeastern, a Florida university that offers some very good resident and non-resident programs, has been the recipient of unfair characterizaton as "substandard."

    Tony
     
  3. owl

    owl member

    Tony,

    Where did you see this criticism reported? I would like to study it.

    Owl, Ph.D. (NSU 2001)
     
  4. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Yesterday, I was discussing with my cousin who received his Ph.D. from NYU. To my surprise, he did not know that Nova is regionally accredited. He also did not know that Nova has a brick-and-mortar campus! He was all eyes when I told him that Nova also has professionally accredited Law,Medicine, Pharmacy, Dentistry, Clinical Psychology, and Physical Therapy programs. I strongly believe that all the criticisms of Nova are rooted in ignorance.
     
  5. owl

    owl member

    Ike,

    I also believe along with ignorance, there is also a bit of jealousy.

    Owl
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that it is common to subdivide the 'non-profit' category into 'independent' and 'church related' as well.

    Obviously many other criteria could be used to classify schools as well.

    The obvious question there is 'better respected by whom'?

    You can correlate school ownership with the rankings in the various academic popularity contests like USNews' and get a feeling for respect by the academic administrators polled. I basically agree with Anthony Pina's first paragraph.

    The schools with the most prestige are weighted toward the best Ph.D./research optimized independent non-profits like Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Cal Tech. I think that the 'flagship' state universities like Berkeley, Michigan and Wisconsin overlap quite a bit, as do the more prominent research-oriented church related schools, such as the Catholics' Notre Dame and Georgetown.

    Apart from this leadership group, I don't think that ownership matters very much until you reach the low end. There is tremendous mid-level overlap between state and private non-profit schools, both church related and independent. Obviously they vary greatly in prestige, but it doesn't seem to correlate very well to ownership status. There are schools perceived as being strong and weak in each category.

    At the low end you do see a weighting towards proprietary schools, I think. They are not very well received by the academic community. Why? I guess that's complex. It would need a whole thread to address. I'd say a mixture of left-wing academic politics and faculty labor issues, (paradoxically) social class and elitism, hostility towards part-time occupational programs and stuff like that. It all results in a perception, often inaccurate, that proprietary schools are optimized to offer shoddy educations to substandard students in pursuit of a buck.

    I do think, with little to go on except my own observations, that proprietary schools are much better received by private sector employers than by academia. Which probably shouldn't be surprising since few proprietary schools seem optimized to prepare their graduates for academic careers. They are very occupational in focus.
     
  7. defii

    defii New Member

    That was a rather broad question I advanced, Bill. However, your comments, as well as the others, are really welcome.

    I was thinking in terms of respect by the academic community. My sense is that except for highly specialized professions (perhaps even those with ties to the academy, most employers aren't terribly concerned with the source of the degree, other than the school being appropriately accredited.

    To be even more specific, I intended to speak exclusively of distance learning schools at the doctoral level. I know schools like Walden and Capella are proprietary. Whereas, schools like Regent Univ are non-profit (church in this case). I am clear that at least from your perspective, it doesn't matter much in the employment sector. But for someone like me with intentions of becoming an adjunct, it does play into my choice of doctoral program.

    Thanks again... Looking forward to more comments from all of you.

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    David Fraser
     
  8. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    I must concur on the ignorance issue which is one reason why I think there is a perception that stems from some of Nova's early history. For example, about a year ago I was discussing NSU with a lawyer here in North Carolina who was from Florida. He thought of NSU as having an unaccredited law school and was surprised when I told him that the school is ABA accredited and that the bar passage rate is about the same as the University of Florisa where he graduated.

    From a historical note -- Nova used to be associated with the New York Institute of Technology. This no longer exists but the relationship caused some heartburn with the residents who thought of Nova as an extension of this New York school and were less inclined to support it. During this time Nova was in difficult financial straits. It did pull itself through quite well but for many people I do not think they have updated their knowledge of the university and are still thinking abou the past.

    John
     
  9. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    One observation - The relative quality of private versus public institutions tends to vary by region of the country. In the east and south, for example, the best schools tend to be private. In Tennessee, for example, Vanderbilt (private) is generally considered a stronger institution than the University of Tennessee. In New England Harvard, MIT, etc. are probably stronger than UMass or the University of Maine or New Hampshire.

    In the midwest, public schools appear to be stronger. For example, in Michigan there really aren't any schools that rival of the University of Michigan. The same holds true in Indiana and Wisonsin. Illinois has excellence on both sides of the divide - the University of Illinois, Northwestern and University of Chicago are all highly regarded.

    I'm sure that a big part of this difference has to do with state funding of public education.

    Thanks - Andy



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    Andy Borchers, DBA
    NSU (1996)
     
  10. Tracy Gies

    Tracy Gies New Member

    Touro Universiy International adds another variable to the mix. It happens to be a not-for-profit Internet university. As far as I know, all other virtual universities in existence today are for-profit ventures. How will TUI keep its distance (if it so desires) from schools like Capella and JIU?

    Perhaps Professor Yoram Neumann, Touro University International's Provost and Chief Academic Officer, had this in mind when he said the the following regarding TUI's tuition reduction:

    "Remember that Touro University International is a not-for-profit educational institution. We have an obligation to meet our cost structure and provide for future developments with our tuition. However, we are not obligated to keep those tuition rates at a level to also provide a substantial profit element. We can pass those savings on to our students. We do not need to provide for stockholders or other investors."

    Tracy<><
     
  11. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Andy Borchers writes: For example, in Michigan there really aren't any schools that rival of the University of Michigan.

    Well, um, er . . . I think it is useful to mention that at the graduate level, especially the doctoral level, reputations are relevant to individual departments, perhaps more than to the entire university. U of M is, of course, a fine place . . . but if one wants to do a graduate degree in communication theory, in hotel and restaurant management, in dairy science, and a few other fields, they will find little in Ann Arbor in the way of widely-known and well regarded programs but if they head north on US 127, they'll find find such programs nearby in the village of East Lansing.

    John Bear, who chose Michigan State
    in part because two of my then-heroes,
    Erich Fromm and Milton Rokeach, were
    teaching there. Both ended up on my
    first doctoral committee.
     
  12. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    Ok John - I'll give a little room to your alma mater MSU - but it too is a state institution. My point remains - in Michigan state schools are generally academically stronger than privates. In Tennesse the reverse is true. This pattern is likely due to the history of state funding of public institutions.

    Thanks - Andy

     
  13. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    And if you trolls (from under the bridge) want a REAL engineering or technology program, try a little farther north in a REAL village of Houghton ( and NOT that southern town of Houghton lake). MTU mu alma mater!




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    M. C. (Mike) Albrecht, PE
     
  14. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    OWL,

    The criticism has not come from printed reports (that would require some kind of justification). An example of this experience was a report from a colleague (a full professor of instrucitonal technlogy at a state university in Illinois) that his institution would not consider a faculty applicants with NSU doctorates. He was not in agreement with this "policy" since Michael Simonsen (a well known and respected name in our field is on the instructional technology faculty at NSU). Another colleague of mine is currently completing his Ed.D. at NSU (after my recommendation) and has been very pleased with his program.

    Regards,

    Tony
    B.A., M.S. BYU (Utah)
    Ed.D. La Sierra U. (California)


     
  15. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

     

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