Columbia Southern University

CSU is now DETC....know what that means? According to a friend of mine her degree was retroactively covered by accreditation and for her it means absolutely NOTHING!!! She still cannot get into a R/A graduate program. She asked about transferring some credits to Excelsior, TESC, or Charter. The answer - NO. So, hooray for DETC!!!!!!

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Howard Rodgers

 

DETC back-dated their accreditation? Are you sure about that?

That's always been the situation with DETC. Regional accreditation and DETC are two different things, and RA is much more widely accepted in academia than DETC.

That's not to say that DETC is worthless. DETC schools are not degree mills. You definitely get an education, though I suppose there is controversy about how DETC and RA compare. Many private employers and public agencies accept DETC degrees from job applicants.

You just need to be clear about why you are studying. If you simply want to acquire some knowledge or skills, DETC may be fine. If you want to go to graduate school or transfer the credits into an RA program, DETC probably isn't fine. If you intend to use your degree as a terminal vocational qualification, it will work well in many cases, but probably won't be as widely accepted as RA.

 

Howard reports According to a friend of mine her degree was retroactively covered by accreditation

What she is probably saying is that she got her degree before DETC accredited Columbia Southern, and so now she has an accredited degree.

As has been discussed here in the past week, this is not so, although many people at many schools probably think it is. It would be really interesting if Columbia Southern said anything to its alumni that would cause them to believe that. I rather doubt it -- but since Columbia Southern's owners read this forum (whenever I say something they don't like, they write to my publisher), perhaps the Drs. Mayes will be kind enough to respond here.

 

According to a rather banal article I wrote for degree.net, this is quite the norm. Of the eight or so RA DL schools I contacted, only one, Capella, would even consider accepting credits and/or degrees from DETC-accredited schools. (And none would even consider applicants with degrees from unaccredited schools.)

Rich Douglas

 

Bob Mayes wrote an e-mail to Ten Speed Press criticizing my article on their website. (Of course, he mis-represented my points.) I asked for the source of his doctorate and got no answer. Does anyone know?

Rich Douglas

 

Dr. Bear,

As much as your research has helped me steer clear of bad programs, I get the impression that you tend to be the most critical of schools who's owners take exception to something you write. In many cases you won't write anything particularly negative but you attempt to bait people (school owners and/or the schools students) in to "writing your publisher." I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. In Columbia Southern's case above, you first lead one to wonder the school is doing something unethical. Then you say "I rather doubt it --." Then you lay the bait. I wonder if your publishers like you?

One thing is for sure you certainly don't shy away from inflammatory remarks. Against bad programs and schools that is fine. Now it almost seems like you and others here have set their collective sites on DETC schools -- as if there is a problem with DETC accreditation; which there is not...OH! that is unless I want to get a PhD from Harvard. God forbid if a DETC school had once claimed unrecognized accreditation in their past. You never seem to accept that they made a positive turn around. Warning! Warning!

Anyway...I like most of your other stuff.

X-Kempo
MBA candidate 2003 Columbia Southern University
NOT expecting to go to Harvard for a PhD/DBA
NOT expecting to compete for a Fortune 100 or Wall Street job with $90,000 MBA Duke or Columbia (New York) grads. But, most RA distance grads can't compete either....not part of the Core Recruitment Schools.

 

I also hope you're not trying to compete with an Amberton grad with a $6000 degree, for any job at all. All other things being equal, why would an employer select your DETC degree over an RA degree? Why select a DETC degree in a vanilla, crowded field like business studies when it has disadvantages compared to RA degrees but no advantages?

(Are you "Drew Daily" or have you ever copied his AED post?)

 

Wow. That post was in such bad taste and so complete untrue I am not going to even reply to it. I would like to thank Dr. Bear for providing a great service to thousand of people including myself. I appreciate it VERY much.

 

It wasn't meant to be in bad taste. I to think Dr. Bear provides a great service. However, I've also observed a particular bias towards RA schools on his part, yet DETC schools are listed with RA's in his book with no particular bias at all. I only see it on the message boards. If you don't like DETC schools why list them with RA's in the book? If I'm being to critical then this really isn't an open forum. And if that's the case then I can stop posting my thoughts. I'm not trying to offend Dr. Bear or anyone else...just offering up my two cents.

 

Hi Bill,

Yes, it's the same guy. How are you? I see what your saying but is that based on personal experience or is that based on stories you've heard etc.? It just seems like it wouldn't even be an issue unless your trying to get a job with a well known and big company. Nothing against Amberton but I don't think many employers would know that school any better than any DETC school unless the school is in the area (city, state) your trying to get a job in.

 

"One thing is for sure you certainly don't shy away from inflammatory remarks. Against bad programs and schools that is fine. "

I have just noticed a few things. I was reading Dr. Bear's book again and he states clearly that he does have a Bias.

Dr. Bear (if you read this) I'm sorry if what I wrote gets under your skin. I didn't mean to piss you off or anyone else here. "Inflammatory" might not be the right word. I've read other posts of yours today and you were being fair to DETC schools. So, it appears I may have taken some things out of context and confused your statements with others here. I'm sorry for making the mistake. I got in a fit and started typing instead of reading.

Can you all forgive me ...or banish me to the idiot room for a while or something.

Mea Culpa

 

Mmmmmm.

Has the US DoEd ever pursued this sort of thing ?

After all, if the US DoEd recognises DETC and the RA outfits, then they are both on the same footing - arent't they ?

Unless they are both characters in a Distance Education verison of "Animal Farm".

And we all know what being more equal than others means !!!!

Cheers,

Neil

 

If I was turned down by an RA school on the basis of having a DETC degree I would appeal it if I really wanted in that program. I'd go to the RA body for the school, US Dept of Ed, etc. Beyond that I would think that I'd have a legal case for access. We'd be talking about GAAP etc. It seems to me that it would be a pretty clear case of illegal discrimination. I don't know if this has ever been attempted but if ever does become a legal case I think we would find acceptance of DETC degrees by all RA schools. The 28% or so that never accept DETC degrees would be legal bound to consider them just like the RA's....is there an ESQ in the house.

 

Drew

Before you get too wrapped up in Neil's post realize that was meant to provoke. DETC and RA are in no way equal. There is only one very expensive RA institution (Capella) I know of that regularly accepts DETC degrees. Others may on a very rare bases. My guess is the exceptional applicant they would accept with a DETC degree they would have also accepted with no degree. This would be some one with remarkable life experience or talent. With RA MBAs available as low as $6000 why would one even consider a non-RA MBA?

 

Not all discrimination is illegal. If it were, employers and universities would have to accept all comers. Employers and graduate schools obviously may set their own educational standards for hiring or admissions.

The US Department of Education recognizes accreditors for the purpose of determining eligibility for receipt of federal funds. They clearly do not intend that recognition to imply that all employers and all universities must accept all applicants from all schools accredited by any DoEd recognized accreditor.

Employers and universities are free to use their own judgement.

What universities do is form associations of schools that agree to accept credits from other member schools (providing that they meet program requirements etc.), and which set membership standards and a quality assurance mechanism to help ensure that those standards are met. Some of these associations may in turn agree to recognize the members of other associations, but that needn't necessarily be the case. These are the various institutional accreditors.

Employers in turn usually defer to the judgement of the academic community as just described.

GAAP is irrelevant in this context. It is descriptive and not prescriptive in any case. There is certainly no legal obligation implied.

 

What human doesn't? I think John's point (and I don't mean to speak for him) is that it would be much more above-board if Dr. Mayes aired his concerns here for all to see, rather than writing to his publisher.

"No one likes a tattletale, because when you tattle on others, you're really tattling on yourself" - Mike Brady


Bruce

 

X,

I have to say I agree with Bill. I suspect that you cannot force a school to accept credits. RA schools will not accept all credits from other RA schools. Our local state university was regularly refusing Community College transfer credit (some say due to truf war). DETC is not a protected class (like race, sex, etc).

I have worked within a regulatory agency and so I suspect what is true there may be true for accreditation issues. There are standards which at a minimum must be followed and guidelines which are suggested. Within this the organization can develop policies which cannot violate & must meet standards & law but give them them latitude. For instance within the regulatory area I work in, as long as not discriminating on the basis of race, etc. a facility can determine it's own admission criteria based on diagnosis, etc. There are always exceptions and in our case these would require requesting a variance on a case by case basis (exception & not the rule).

Now, having said all that. In our organization your DETC degree would be recognized as valid for empolyment purposes.

North

 

I just read a post by Dr. Bear today were he mentioned that a survey of schools shows that RA's will always accept 100% of other RA's. He also stated that there was an always 70% acceptance of RA distance degrees by other RA schools. The number drop to like an always 29% from DETC to RA. I don't see the difference in quality of education from RA distance program to a DETC program. At least about 30% of regular RA schools don't either. I guess that's a start.

 

Let's remember that DETC schools always have the option of submitting their courses for evaluation by the American Council on Education’s College Credit Recommendation Service. This, I believe, significantly increases the likelihood of their acceptance by RA schools and others.

The DETC site (detc.org) lists the 17 schools that have done so.

Either Columbia Southern has chosen not to do this, or they have done it and choose not to share the results. Since the Mayes family, which owns CSU, clearly reads this forum, perhaps they will choose to tell us which -- or if, perhaps, they are planning to go through this process.

 

Did he really say that?

It obviously isn't true. RA schools routinely require applicants to graduate school to have not only RA bachelors degrees, but degrees in particular majors, suitable grade point averages and stuff like recommendations.

I expect that he probably meant that RA schools will never reject another RA school for reasons of institutional accreditation alone. I'm sure that's true. Although even regarding accreditation, some graduate schools might want professional accreditation from something like the American Chemical Society as well as RA.

It's not like RA guarantees that you will be accepted. But it means that you won't be rejected out of hand for reasons of accreditation alone. You will make the first cut, but not necessarily the final cut.