first time here

Hi,
As you can see, first time here. I am an adult with over 20 years experience in hospitality industry. Currently, I am a General Manager of a private club and will soon sit for the certification exam through club manager's association of america. I need to find a university that will honor "life-experience" and that is low in cost as I have a family to support.
Any suggestions? I looked at Heriot-Watt, but it is expensive and my wife thought it to be a bit dodgey, what with skipping your bachelor's and moving right on to your masters.
Any advice would be welcome!!!
Thanks, John

 

The routine answer you'll get, John, is to consider the 'big three' -- Thomas Edison State, Charter Oak State, and Excelsior. They are all reasonable choices, but the more important advice is to shop around. More than 400 regionally accredited universities offer distance Bachelor's degrees, but you'll be wanting one that specifically gives credit for your prior learning and perhaps for your forthcoming certification exam. One place many people start their search is in Bears' Guide, which many libraries have, along with all the usual places books are sold.

Heriot-Watt is an intriguing option for people without a Bachelor's, who have an MBA as an eventual goal. During the seven years that I was involved in marketing that MBA in the US (1991-98), about 40% of the students did not have a Bachelor's, and they did just as well on the exams, and the acceptance rate was extremely high: more than 98% of 1,000+ company evaluations were positive, including more than 70 of the Fortune 100 largest companies. If you add together the combined cost of Bachelor's and Master's, versus their MBA, it could make sense.

Best wishes in your quest. And thank you, refreshingly, for using your actual name in posting your message.

John Bear
Publisher's site: www.degree.net

 

Consider only regionally accredited degree programs (or foreign equivalents). Nothing else will have wide acceptance in the working world and towards a higher degree.

Consider the kind of methodology you wish to employ. For example, you may wish to take a classroom-based program offered locally. Or you might want to take correspondence courses. Perhaps an online program is for you. Or even a "menu"-style program, where the degree requirements are laid out for you by the school (both overall and what you have remaining based upon your previous creditable work).

Consider how much residency and in what form you can take.

Consider costs vs. convenience. While not entirely inversely correlated, they are close. Less expensive programs tend to be less "user friendly." Also, menu-style programs are less expensive because your studies are done elsewhere.

Consider how much prior creditable experience you have. College courses, life experience, military training and the like.

Consider whether or not you will be completing some or all of your requirements by examination (CLEP, DANTES, etc.).

Consider how many credits you do or might have towards graduation. Most schools require a minimum number of credits (often 30 s.h.) be taken with them. There are notable exceptions, however, that will allow you to complete ALL of your requirements prior to enrollment.

Consider time-in-program minimum requirements. Some schools require a semester or two; others, none at all.

Consider in which field you wish to earn your degree.

Consider buying/borrowing/stealing John and Mariah Bear's Bears' Guide to Earning College Degrees Nontraditionally to get a good grounding into the fundamentals of distance education (and an overview of hundreds of colleges and universities offering distance learning degree programs).

Finally, taking into account the possibility of earning credits by testing, transfer credit, life experience, and new courses, consider Thomas Edision State College at www.tesc.edu.

Rich Douglas, who is sometimes inconsiderate.

 

Hello John, and welcome to the forum.

Both John and Rich have given you solid advice. Let me also encourage you to consider only those schools which are accredited by an accrediting agency which is recognized by the US Dept. of Education/CHEA, or its foreign equivalent.

You will find myriad schools (just look in the classifieds of USA Today) which advertise:

degrees for $200+
degrees based on life experience only accredited degrees (worthless accreditation)
promises of job enhancement
promotion & increases in salary
degrees with no college
degrees by peer evaluation

The very best advice one could receive when considering a degree program is to make sure the school awarding the degree is properly accredited.

Best wishes in your pursuit.

And for those who steal a copy of Bears' Guide, the guide has a chapter on degree opportunities for those in prison.

Russell

 

Assuming that your exposure to distance learning is minimal, a word of caution regarding "accreditation" is warranted. As you can read in the board archives, many schools may claim to be accredited... and there are radical differences in acceptability of accreditation. The best advice for you would be to track down one of Dr Bear's books and CAREFULLY read the chapter on accreditation (why it's important and what accreditors are recognized by what sectors of society). There are too many accreditors who are "less-than-wonderful" who's accredited degree's are relatively worthless to those students who have honorable intentions. Horror stories are abundant about students who sink money into programs only to find that their efforts were totally wasted.

Research your options carefully and share your findings with us (speaking for the board). We'll make every effort to ensure that you're cautioned when considering risky opportunities.

Remember this… if the program sounds too good/easy/cheap to be true it's probably not worth your time, effort and resources.

BruceP in Colorado Springs

 

Although some would disagree (probably the majority around these parts) in traditional academia or corporate America most would consider any school which offers credit for life experience as "a bit dodgey". Similarly, the most popular alternatives on this board (TESC, etc.) are not exactly prestigious.
Ironically, a subordinate prepared a thorough proposal on Heriot-Watt (which I have researched/validated) and it is definetly reputable (if not prestigious, on the cusp).

We are paying 100% of the costs for the Heriot-Watt MBA.

 

Of course, people graduating from the "big three" have gone on to distinguish themselves in many different ways, including medical and law school.

Many, many traditional universities offer life experience credit. It isn't even considered "nontraditional" anymore. Furthermore, "corporate America" couldn't care less about how you earned your degree, and barely even about from where.

There is nothing "dodgy" about life experience credit. Personally, I don't support the idea, preferring that the candidate demonstrate knowledge rather than being given credit for knowledge via an evaluation of his/her experience. But just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean there is something unnatural about it. Take every credit a school will give you.

Rich Douglas

 

This is your opinion... I stand by mine based on experience in both traditional academia and corporate America.

 

Could you provide a bit of elaboration regarding the nature of that experience, so that we may weigh your opinion accordingly? If you have any specific insight to relate it would be appreciated.

I would like to point out that most schools are not considered prestigious. There is value in having a legitimate degree, whether the school that awarded it is considered prestigous or not. It can be argued that there is prestige associated with obtaining any legitimate (which I suppose would be defined by GAAP) degree.

I was doing just fine professionally (consulting for companies such as Motorola, Lockheed Martin, Honeywell, Boeing, etc.) without possessing any degree at all, and I don't expect that a BA from TESC will hurt my credibility. In fact, it will most certainly make it easier to run things through HR departments that have such expectations. It will also without a doubt enable me to attend graduate school, which would otherwise not be possible for me. Rather than closing doors, as you seem to be implying, a degree from TESC will most definitely open them for me. I would much rather tell people that I have a degree from TESC than tell the story about why I left Purdue in the middle of my last semester.

 

Not really an opinion but fact. There are many factors that go into getting into graduate school. For those that go on to fine gradutae study just take a look at the Charter Oak: http://www.cosc.edu/alumni/grad_acceptances.htm

Excelsior and Thomas Edison have similar track records. In fact Excelsior has over 95,000 alumni. The alumni award winner from Excelsior for 2001 is a Vice President at the Wall Street Journal. http://www.excelsior.edu/alu_awar.htm

All in all, if you take a deeper look you will find that grads from the Big 3 have done quite well.

John

 

Thank you for your input. I found out today that Univ. of Arkansas has a hospitality program and that I may be able to gain some credit for my work experience. I'll let you know....also, I will look into "the big three". Currently, I am studying for my certification exam in February, so I can't do anything until then re: my degree except investigate. Once again, thanks for your advice and for the board. P.S. I am going to find the book!!!
John Spies

 

Hi John,

In case you haven't seen it, take a look at Tim Dotson's site at http://www.abbeyassociates.com/hwpage.html

I think the H-W MBA program also has a link to the same site.

There you will see that for $9,000 you can earn a fully valid and highly respected British MBA from Edinburgh Business School, that is part of Heriot-Watt University.

Tim also gives many pearls of advice about how to succeed (as he did) in getting that MBA.

However, it's unlikely that any of your "life experience" will count towards the degree - other than perhaps preparing you for it instead of doing a bachelor degree first.

Some would argue that if you have a professional certification, that obviates the need for a bachelor level degree anyway - eg. as with some other areas such as accountancy etc. where professional qualifications can be a lot more relevant.

But what you'll also see from Tim's site is the absolutely disgraceful treatment of perfectly valid (in this case British) degrees by the traditional stream of American education.

In enquiring about suitability for an adjunct faculty position at local US colleges, Tim found that his H-W MBA was classed in one case as "non-graduate level" since it didn't require bachelor entry (what garbage when graduate level exams were passed) or as "foreign" (perish the thought that foreigners know anything).

My goodness - how more "back woodsmen" can you get ? That's the US Regional Accreditation bunch for you. Don't they know it's 2001 not 1901 ?

But then the same crowd of self-serving self-appointed educational administrators are quite happy to be just as condemning and more so (as are many on this board) of perfectly legitimate American state-licensed and state-approved degrees because they don't much like the cut of those jibs either.

H-W ranks No. 52 (up from 61 the previous year) out of 123 British universities in the current Sunday Times ranking and is in good company alongside the University of Kent and University of Aberdeen, for example - both high-reputation universities. H-W is also rated 'excellent' (the top grade) in one area - Electrical/Electronic Engineering.

Good luck in what you do - but don't be afraid to be a pioneer as well if you have a mind to. That's the only way that some of the traditionalists will ever learn anything.

Regards,

Neil Hynd

 

Three things in life are sure things; death, taxes, and Neil Hynd never passing up an opportunity to try and defend his....ahem..."doctorate" from Century University, regardless if it's related to the subject at hand.

For those who aren't aware, Century University is an unaccredited school that was previously based in California, and is now in New Mexico. They fled California rather then be subjected to new school licensing standards, and since they were in New Mexico prior to *their* new standards, Century was "grandfathered" in under the NM system, and therefore is not subject to school licensing laws there either. In other words, they have no oversight other then themselves. They also claim accreditation from a sham accrediting agency, ACI. Oh, and for good measure, check out their webpage. They claim to have issued over 10,000 degrees with a faculty of 23 people, 10 of whom have their doctorates from Century. You do the math.

Neil, you surely must have a masochistic streak in you. Statements such as the one quoted above are just an invitation to rehash Century's rather colorful and questionable history.


Bruce

 

Mmmm.

Now what really has Bruce's post got to do with the subject raised by John Spies and addressed by me (and others) ???

I also notice Bruce doesn't attempt to defend the disdain that Tim found his H-W MBA got from certain elements of the traditional US accrediting operation.

I think my only reference to 'century' was the 1901 that they (and Bruce ?) appear to live in and 2001 that the real world does !

Poor Bruce - he seems to be the one who's fixated ! Get a life !

Cheers,

Neil

 

Dr. Hynd is quite correct in that he didn't mention Century University. But he is quite incorrect in saying:

"But then the same crowd of self-serving self-appointed educational administrators are quite happy to be just as condemning and more so (as are many on this board) of perfectly legitimate American state-licensed and state-approved degrees because they don't much like the cut of those jibs either.

The vast majority of such schools are scorned not for "the cut of their jibs," but, rather, for their unscrupulous business activities, lack of academic processes, and for operating outside the recognized higher education system. (While pretending to be a part of it with spurious accreditation and claims of legitimacy from licensure that explicitly does NOT confer such.)

Apologists for such institutions readily blame the critics instead of addressing the criticisms, because such criticisms are also truths.

I feel Bruce's purpose for commenting, however, was quite good, responding to a gratuitous and false statement.

Rich Douglas

 

Does this pun (i.e., 'century') mean that Century University is operating (living) under a 1901 educational/accreditation model, while its students/alumni function in 2001?

Russell

 

Why should I defend something that I have nothing to do with, and actually don't agree with? I have nothing to do with Heriot-Watt (although I think it's a good program), and I'm certainly not part of "certain elements of the traditional US accrediting operation".

As for the "Century" reference, you're really starting to lose it Neil. At least have the stones to stand up and defend your position on the issue, rather then play cute word games.


Bruce

 

Wow, Rich. This is a really great post, and really hits the nail on the head. Every now and then I see a post and think "Man, I wish I had written that."

It would be wonderful if the organizers of this board could collect "canonical" posts such as this into a read-only FAQ forum.

 

I have already complained to the moderator(s) about your dishonest statement referring to: "and therefore is not subject to school licensing laws there either. In other words, they have no oversight other then themselves."

I suggest you refer to the www.nmche.org web site - in particular the list of licensed schools. The CU NM state licence has been maintained annually since 1988 or 1989.

Also, I would also be interested to know what the responsibilities of an "Administrator" of this group are regarding probity and accurate postings.

NH

 

Neil:

Bruce's post certainly reflected the common view of Century. If this view is incorrect, could you explain the extent of New Mexico's oversight of Century? I was under the impression that Century (because of its "grandfathered" status) is not subject to the many regulations laid out in NMCHE's "Rule 730".