P.E. (Professional Engineer) licensure

Greeting.

I'm curious about P.E. (Professional Engineer) licensure, and
whether I (or any other distance learners) should be.

I never gave being a P.E. any thought since, despite being
inspired by Howard Roark, I had no desire to build buildings or
even design their plumbing <g>. It is my understanding, however,
that P.E.-collectivism has already entangled itself in the field
of electrONIC engineering (the field I aspire to and might one
day wish to consult in), and that its tentacles are, even as I
write, spreading towards computer programming (ditto).

Questions:
1) Given my career aspirations, should I be concerned that course
work at COSC -- my alma mater, if I ever get around to finishing
my half completed degree there -- isn't ABET accredited?
2) Should I make sure that as many of the technical courses I
will (hopefully) be taking come from ABET accredited college
courses or does ABET accreditation not percolate down that way?
3) Anyone know of distance, ABET accredited, CS/EE degrees and
courses? (Listed in order of ascending price (i.e. cheapest
first!) please.)

Also, if you have any useful tips, comments, or suggestions,
please feel free to add them even if they don't answer one of the
above questions!

Cordially,
Richard Kanarek

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Check with the registration board where you want to get registered. Liscenure is an activity regulated by the states. All have varying requirements but all do administer uniform examinations from NCEES.

All states will accept an ABET accredited Bachelor degree with no questions. For non-ABET grads, there are other varying requirements such as ciriculumn content and on the job experience.

Typically, the applicant will be required to demonstrate competence by passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam. This 8 hour exam marathon is administered twice yearly in April and October. From NCEE statistics, ABET graduates usually have a 60% shot at passing the first time. Once you pass the marathon you will be required to spend 4 to 5 years gaining engineering experience in your discipline. After applying for the Principles and Practices of Engineering exam, you will document the experience and get five personal recommendations. The Principles is an 8 hour exam marathon and for the major disciplines, it is offered in April and October. For the rest of the disciplines, the exam is offered only in October.

I am registered as an Industrial Engineer and I hold certification in Manufacturing Engineering. This combination gives "documented competence" in two disciplines. The PE with CMfgE gives me the ability to practice engineering in two disciplines without taking the extra Principles exam.

If you offer services to the public, you must be registered as a PE. If you enter the consulting business, then you must work under the supervision of a PE.

Check out http://www.ppi2pass.com for links to the state engineering boards.

A note on coursework... ABET likes to see laboratory components to coursework. This can be difficult for DL participants.

ABET accredits mostly BS level degrees. Accreditaion is a mutually exclusive proposition, A school can opt for BS or Masters level. The only requirements for Masters level are the addition of one more year of advanced coureswork and the completion of a written project (Capstone or Thesis). ABET does not accredit any doctoral programs. For more info you can go to http://www.abet.org and download all accreditation requirements.

There is a distinction between Engineering and Technology programs. ABET recently got into accrediting Computer Science Programs and has stired up a real hornets nest concerning liscensure. Engineering programs have different requirements concerning course work and level of mathematics. These are two different animals and the Technology graduates do really bad on engineering licensure exams.

My recommendation is do the RA or ABET program route and you will have adequate preparation for the exams.

Regards,

Dick

 

Bear in mind that there is more to the PE certification than the exam -- you also need the letters of reference and documented engineering experience, generally under supervision of certified Professional Engineers.

 

Excelsior College has ABET degrees in electronics engineering technology and nuclear engineering technology.
http://www.excelsior.edu/tec_accr.htm


John

 

Greetings.

A few comments and questions regarding the replies that my
original post garnered:
1. Thank you all very much for taking the time to reply! (And
thanks, too, to those who might reply after I post this.)
2. www.ppi2pass.com is, indeed, a treasure-trove of useful PE
information; far more so than the web sites of either my
state board or of the National Association of Professional
Engineers(R) (www.nspe.org).
3. No one yet mentioned whether it would be beneficial to take
classes from an ABET school even if one is pursuing a
degree granted by a non-ABET school (COSC, TESC, etc.).
Thoughts?
4. As a practical matter -- i.e. official policy aside -- how
much of a hindrance to being a PE would a non-ABET degree
pose? (I might add that I would be -- and, indeed am -- the
first to point out that becoming a PE is hardly an
immediate concern. Its just that pursuing my BS degree
hasn't proved that much fun that I should wish to do it
again in the future.)
And finally (somewhat off topic):
5. Dr. Bear inadvertently stumbled upon yet another one --
possibly two -- of my personal hot topic(s) when he wrote:
"Excelsior College has ABET degrees in electronics
engineering technology and nuclear engineering
technology."
The way I remember it, hundreds of years ago when I was a
HS graduate an Eng. Tech. degree was a two-year degree
designed for those who both lacked the metal (coin or
character) to get an engineering degree, and who wanted an
education that was fancier, if inferior, to that supplied
by a Voc./Tech. HS. (I might point out that I'm a graduate
of a Voc./Tech. HS and got half way through an ASET (?)
degree.)
I must confess to being completely lost as to the purpose
of a four year ET degree (why spend 4 yrs not becoming an
engineer when one can not be an engineer in two?). I'm now
doubly lost as to why the National Association of
Professional ENGINEERS wishes to concern them selves with
"Technologists". Are they really that hard-up for cash?

Cordially,
Richard Kanarek

 

A few clarifications...

 

That was Dr. Wetsch not Dr. Bear.
(Sorry to nitpick.)

 

I have noticed that the attitude about being able to add those two little letters after your name is mostly dependent on where you work. If you work for a manufacturing company it does not matter, if you want to work in consulting IT DOES, at least to the consultants (I do not think it really matters to the clients). It also seems to matter what industry and what state. though with the globalization of the economy it will probably become less important (state registration).

I have also noted that sometimes changing the E for an hD is as important if not more so. Especially if you get tired of workin and want to teach(not implying that teaching is not work by any means). This latter case is my point and the main reason I am even here as I am looking at distance learning PhD programs with the aim of teaching. (BTW i waited almost 25 years to get my PE.)

 

It really does matter to clients. They usually want legal contracts for services and require insurance minimums. There is an interest on the client's part to know who to sue and to know how much your insurance will cover.

In legal matters, the PE and your experience qualify you as an Expert Witness.

Regards,

Dick

 

I guess that point really depends on your industry. Mine (mining) puts very little emphasis on the PE, especially as one day you can be working in one state and the next on a different continent.

------------------
M. C. (Mike) Albrecht, PE

 

I used to be counsel for the State of New Mexico P.E. registration board. They've got a weird rule: If you have a BS in engineering that is "acceptable to the Board", you may sit for the EIT exam. If you have an ABET BSET and two years of engineering experience, you may sit for the EIT exam. The technology degree MUST be ABET but the engineering degree need not be!
Nosborne

 

Hi Richard,

Good luck in your efforts for PE licensure.

From what I read here, the situation is just as tortuous as that experienced in the UK - but just in case you have any connection there, don't forget the route to Chartered Engineer status by being a corporate member of appropriate British institutions.

As for value, being a C.Eng. is probably the most satisfying recognition for a British engineer - although wishing it were eg. Ing. Hans Muller as in Germany where a "title" is valued as well.

Or in fact Eng. Neil Hynd for me here in the UAE ... since my Engineering qualifications were equivalenced by the Ministry of Science and Higher Education a few years ago.

Regards,

Neil Hynd
C.Eng., MIEE, MBCS

 

What schools were you looking at ????

I checked out Walden for Engineering Management but they seemed awfully pricey for the 10 quarter minimum attendance requirement. I could go locally cheaper than that. Not that I absolutely have to do DL. It is just that the residency requirement is a killer with my current job.

Colorado State has a DL program in Engineering Management. However they keep cancelling classes. Chances of completing it on their time table did not look good.

These were the only two DL programs that seemed viable for the doctorate. But that was Engineering Management.

Regards,

Dick

 

I have been looking at similar types of programs(e.g. Engineering/Technology Management). Two of the best appear to be Indiana State PhD Consortium and the University of Alabama - Huntsville. Another close program (Reliability instead of managemetn) is at Univeristy of Maryland- College Park.

I would like to here more about the Oz & SA programs.

 

Thanks for the info Mike. I wasn't aware of those programs.

I ended up going the non-RA route. Since I am not interested in tenure teaching and am already liscensed, it made sense for me. I teach at the University of Phoenix and all I needed was the RA Masters with 5 years experience with it. They pay everybody the same based upon time with the school.

Thanks for the info and I wish you the best on pursuit of your doctorate.

Regards,
Dick

 

Don't know about Australia. Unisa in South Africa has a Doctor of Business Leadership program. But you would need to be present in person in Pretoria for 4 to 6 of the colloquium sessions, which are held three times a year. Also you would need a local co-advisor (i.e. professor from a recognized university near you). The Unisa degree would be inexpensive but would take some time -- probably 3 or 4 years. For more definitive answers, you might like to chat with John Craparo.

 

An interesting side note, the program that got me interested in this whole DL route was the Cal Coast Engineering management program. I had an interesting talk with "Dr." Ben bova over dinner one night about that school (he got his Ed.D. from there and like it).

Fortunately (or infortunately?) I found out about the RA angle afterwards. Which does raise an interesting question, do RA schools class DETC as RA?

 

DETC accreditation is not considered equivalent to regional accreditation (RA). Also, schools that offer doctorates are not accredited by DETC -- though DETC is considering accreditation of schools that offer professional doctorate-level degrees, and this might bring legitimate but currently unaccredited schools (e.g. perhaps Taft) into the fold.

 

I notice on his official website that he is referred to as Dr. Bova. The doctorate from Cal Coast is discussed in his online bio.