How important is a big name school?

George Washington University is starting another doctoral cohort in my area and they are offering either a PhD or a DSc in systems engineering or engineering management (student's choice of degree type and degree focus). They waived the application fee, so I applied just for the heck of it. However, I may be faced with a tough decision very soon. I have been very happy with DSU, but a PhD from GWU would trump a DSc from DSU any day.

My purpose behind earning a doctorate is to become more marketable in the online teaching community. I already teach math for two online schools (both RA) so I am not sure if there would be much of an ROI going with GWU.

Pros and cons:

GWU pros -
1. Top school (ranked 54th by USN&WR)
2. PhD rather than DSc (better known degree)

GWU cons -
1. Expensive ($53K)
2. Will take 36/52 Saturdays to complete coursework in the first year
3. Have to take 10 courses (2 more than I have left with DSU)
4. Wife not happy about me having to spend all of those Saturdays away from family


DSU pros -
1. Inexpensive (costs less per class than GWU charges per credit)
2. Can be done from home (i.e. more family time)
3. Have 8 courses to go before the dissertation
4. Wife wants me to stick with DSU

DSU cons -
1. Not a top school (but still an excellent school)
2. No name recognition (DSU as compared to GWU)


Is there really an ROI going with a top school like GWU for my purposes (teaching online) or is this where any doctorate will do (DSU will work just as well)?

Do schools that hire online adjuncts look for top schools or are they more concerned about applicants with accredited degrees?

Ugh...GWU will let me know in 3-4 weeks and I feel I have a good shot at getting in. What are the opinions of the board?

 

In my life the cost of a program (or anything else for that matter) is probably the most important factor. Also, the fact that you've already got some DSU credits earned is a factor. The fact that it's an online program certain pumps up the convenience as well. GWU is a bigger name but I'm not sure how much that will mean in the end. I'd stick with DSU. Others will certainly have a different perspective.

 

Your own analysis of the pros and cons indicates that you should stick to DSU.

If you have someone to paid for it and you don't mind maybe loosing time with your family then GWU may be the answer.

It is who you know that get you to places not what you know, so best thing to do is start making connections, and with your qualifications that will get you where you want to be.

There is not guarantee that you land a job even with the GWU degree it may help you more but certainly it will not guarantee it, other that you will be deeper in debt.

When I moved from Argosy Back to NCU this was the breakdown:

NCU:RA accredited, online 100%, less expensive (I got a 40% discount) and lock in the rate, one class at NCU for me is $855 , ACBSP, accounting program. No more loans. Paid in full!

vs.

Argosy: RA accredited, online not 100%, way expensive a class was $2550 plus interest, does not have ACBSP, accounting program (soft) . More loans and interest until I finish.

Argosy is to be a better name or better known than NCU and has been established longer than NCU, but the balance tip over NCU.

Best of luck on what you decide!

 

I recently asked this same question to a professor at Bellevue because I am interested in teching at some point in the future. His opinion is that a degree from a big name school will help to get you the interview, but will not play a role in landing the job. I tend to agree with him if a parallel can be drawn between the academic and business worlds. That said, getting the interview, if you're good, is half the battle.

Pug

 

The cost and time I've already invested in DSU are both major factors in my decision. The fact that I have a 4.00 so far in DSU's program after 8 courses [and hopefully 9 soon] is another consideration.

I agree, who you know is much more important than what you know. The fact that I already have online teaching gigs with two schools prior to earning a doctorate is another thing that opens doors. Schools often times only want to hire adjuncts with teaching experience, which is often times what makes it hard to land the first teaching gig.

GWU doesn't guarantee me more jobs, but it will cost a pretty penny. I worked it out so I could pay for the GWU program as I go (i.e. no debt); however, it will cost me in terms of the other things I could put that money towards (house improvements, a house on the water, and so on).

I know GWU will get my foot in the door faster than DSU, but I would hope that a doctorate from DSU along with actual teaching experience would help me more than just having the doctorate from GWU.

 

Based on your what you have said and your goals (online adjunct) after the doctorate, I would also stick with DSU.

If you wanted a full-time, tenure-track gig, I would look towards GWU. Depending on the school and the demand of your field, even that may not be enough. For a research intensive university only a full-time traditional doctorate program will usually work.

My $.02

Disclosure: I have no teaching experience and no doctorate, but I have been around a while and researched this a great deal.

 

Hi:

I would not switch now, with (relatively) so little time remaining before you begin to write. Sure it would be nice to have a degree from a "name" school but the DSc will allow you to achieve your end goals anyway.

Once I finish my Ed.S from NSULA, I plan to enter the Ed.D program at NCU. For a long time I was concerned about what "other" people though and, in the end, I decided to do what I wanted to do.

Besides, things always work out for the best in the end (as they will for you) and I am sure you have already made the right decision.

Good luck!

Ian

PS - Happy wife = happy life so I'd do what she wants!!!

http://elevation02.blogspot.com

 

I do believe prestige should be taken into account for someone thinking of adjuncting/teaching, but I also believe in not rewarding avarice. I read somewhere that GWU is the most expensive university in the United States (I do know their current DL programs are ridiculously expensive), and I frankly don't think they're worth it.

You're progressing nicely in a doctoral program at a solid (if unremarkable) state school with a strong B&M presence. I would leave well enough alone.

 

I believe the survey you saw was for undergraduate costs that included mandatory fees and room/board. Their grad tuition is not cheap, but it is nowhere near the top of the mountain. Just here locally, the University of Maryland -College Park is more expensive for some degree types, as is Johns Hopkins and the University of Baltimore/Towson. The degree I am loking at at GWU would run about $27k. Also, I think he may be leaning toward b&m study with GWU, not DL. I know I will do my work with GWU in a classroom if I study with them.

Pug

 

GWU is a good school with a fine local reputation. I don't think that reputation is as robust outside the DC area.

IMHO, the earlier you are in your career, the greater impact the reputation of the school may have. Also, the more recent your graduation--no matter where you are in your career--the greater the impact. Rationale: in both cases, the longer you go, the more your work begins to define you and what your capabilities are.

A Ph.D. from Northcentral isn't going to get you many job interviews at traditional universities. But it could boost a master's level instructor's academic career by allowing his/her school/employer to promote him or her now that the "square" is filled.

But it's been my experience that the reputation of the school doesn't really mean too much to seasoned professionals.

I'd do whichever degree you can do and can afford. But I think a DSU degree will help you every bit as much as a GWU, for a lot less.

 

You've had some good advice here. I would tend to concur with the 'if it's not broken, don't mend it' approach.

Also - don't underestimate the importance of keeping the wife happy. After 2-1/2 years of MBA study mine is geting really fed up, and that is with the dissertation still to go...bad atmosphere at home does not help studying at all!

All the best,

Dave C.

 

I agree. Great advice given by everyone. Thanks Steve, Kizmet, Vinipink, pugbelly, macattack, elevation02, Bruce, Rich, and Dave.

You guys confirmed what I was thinking. I think I was in denial because of the GWU name. I live close to the DC area and the GWU name carries a lot of weight in my area. However, I am not fresh out of college so I rely on my professional experience to get me jobs rather than my education.

DSU is a solid, B&M school, so I don't think I will have any problem with a degree from them. Besides, I can earn a second masters degree and a doctorate from them for half the price of the GWU doctorate (I am currently 6 credits away from an MSIS).

 

Of course...my vote would be to stay with DSU

 

You have received some great and accurate advice here and have come to a very logical conclusion. As one who heads up an RA online learning program that employs a combination of our regular F2F faculty and adjunct faculty, I can say that if you have good practical career experience in the area that you teach, experience teaching that subject at the college level (especially if you have examples of your student and/or peer evaluations) and a a good, solid RA degree like DSU, you should do fine. As pugbelly said, a GWU might get you into the door, but your experience and competence will land you the job.

Since I have a friend who chairs the educational technology masters program at DSU, I have a warm spot for that school.

 

I figured I'd have your vote to stay with DSU.

You and I are going to be in the same two courses next semester. Are you also taking INFS 890?

 

Could you provide a link to this program - I could not find it on the GW site?

Personally I would prefer a D.Sc to a Ph.D. since I work in a technical field.

 

No problem. The first link is the general link for the program, but does not list the program close to me. The second link shows the program near me.

http://nearyou.gwu.edu/em-d-hr/index1.html

http://www.smhec.org/

I also work in a technical field, so maybe the DSc is a better fit for me as well.

 

While I agree that DSU is a fine school and your D.Sc. will serve you well.... wait for the letter of offer and (since you have nothing to lose), try to negotiate a "deal" in terms of coursework and transfer credit. Perhaps I am looking at this from a European doctoral perspective, but everything is negotiable.

Long term, there MIGHT be a payoff by having a degree from GWU.

 

Thanks. This is the kind of feedback I was looking for to help me justify my decision. Since I have practical experience in the field I teach, experience in online teaching [with excellent student feedback], and I am working on a doctorate from a solid RA school, I don't see the ROI of a GWU degree in my situation. Yes, the GWU name looks nice on a resume, but I seriously doubt it will net me $25+ K over a doctorate from DSU from teaching online.

A sweet spot for DSU is always a good thing IMO.

 

This is a great idea and I do have courses I could transfer into the program, but, since this is a cohort program, there is no negotiating the degree requirements. I tried already and they told me that everyone takes the same courses at the same time. If they would let me transfer credits to the program, I could easily transfer 3 to 4 courses (out of 10) from my masters. The coursework they require for the program is the same for these courses as what I took for my masters degree (operations research vs. systems engineering). Also, their tuition is locked and my employer does not pay for doctorates, which means the costs will be mine in the end.