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  1. #1
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Post saybrook graduate school

    Looking at Saybrook for the psych phD. seems to be well known in humanistic/existential psych.

    anyone know anything about its reputation?
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    In that particular niche of psychology , I think they are extremely well regarded. I visited there a number of times when Bruce France (now Chancellor of Capella ) was president, and was always impressed. Rollo May was a special favorite of mine, and he was involved there for years, from its inception I believe.
    Author/co-author: 15 editions of Bears Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning (10 Speed Press/Random House)
    Degree Mills: the billion-dollar industry that has sold more than a million fake diplomas (Prometheus Books)
    Finding Money for College, and 20+ other books on consumerism, cooking, computers, and bestsellers.
    B.A., M.J., University of California Berkeley; Ph.D. Michigan State University

  3. #3
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by John Bear:
    In that particular niche of psychology, I think they are extremely well regarded. I visited there a number of times when Bruce France (now Chancellor of Capella) was president, and was always impressed. Rollo May was a special favorite of mine, and he was involved there for years, from its inception I believe.
    Thanks John. I eventually want to be licensed for private practice in CA. and Saybrooks orientation is just what Im looking for. but some people are suggesting that if I am sure about private practice and have no aspirations to teach, I could get licensed through several state approved schools in my area that are substantially cheaper - and a few have pretty good pass rates with the psych exams. Most appear to be a shorter time commitment than saybrook as well.

    I'd feel better about Saybrook and its RA
    but i just don't know if its worth 3 times the $$$ and 2 more years of study.

    Im wondering if theres some things i have overlooked?


  4. #4
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    "I could get licensed through several state approved schools..."

    Is that really still the case? I haven't been tracking this, but it was mentioned here earlier this year that California Coast U., one of the largest unaccredited schools, no longer qualified to have its students take the psych exams.

    As for the usefulness of a state-approved degree: the good news is that 99% of your clients or potential clients would neither know nor care where you got your degree as long as you had the license. The other news is that if the opportunity ever arose to do something wonderful in another state*, there could well be problems with becoming relicensed there.
    _________
    * Ecstacy? Catatonic? New Jersey?
    Author/co-author: 15 editions of Bears Guide to Earning Degrees by Distance Learning (10 Speed Press/Random House)
    Degree Mills: the billion-dollar industry that has sold more than a million fake diplomas (Prometheus Books)
    Finding Money for College, and 20+ other books on consumerism, cooking, computers, and bestsellers.
    B.A., M.J., University of California Berkeley; Ph.D. Michigan State University

  5. #5
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by John Bear:
    "I could get licensed through several state approved schools..."

    Is that really still the case? I haven't been tracking this, but it was mentioned here earlier this year that California Coast U., one of the largest unaccredited schools, no longer qualified to have its students take the psych exams.

    As for the usefulness of a state-approved degree: the good news is that 99% of your clients or potential clients would neither know nor care where you got your degree as long as you had the license. The other news is that if the opportunity ever arose to do something wonderful in another state*, there could well be problems with becoming relicensed there.
    _________
    * Ecstacy? Catatonic? New Jersey?
    I should have mentioned that the State approved programs I've been researching are not distance learning programs. Ryokan college in L.A. and Trinity College of Graduate Studies in Anaheim are traditional classroom teaching and are within commuting distance to me. The PsyD at both schools meet the academic requirements for state licensure in CA. I think I'd have problems with the portability of either degree, although I'm a native californian. I agree that most clients will probably not care where I went to school, but I wonder what others might think.

    What do you think has more credibility - an RA correspondence school or a traditionally taught state approved one? Is there much of a crediblity difference between the two?



  6. #6
    Jeffrey Levine is offline Registered User
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    I am an on-again, off-again reader/poster on this forum. I just read your post and would like to comment.

    I would suggest that you go with a USA regionally accredited school. California State Approval may or may not work, even in California, and a doctorate from such a school assures you that you will NOT qualify to sit for the licensing exam (aka, EPPP)elsewhere.

    Most, if not all, states require a doctorate from a regionally accredited school to sit for the exam. (Despite popular belief, however, APA accreditation is not usually a prerequisite for licensure). Saybrook meets that criteria.

    The publisher of "the exam" also publishes a series of books including one that lists all the USA doctorate programs ("Designation Guide"?) that are accepted as meeting the educational requirements for sitting for the licensing exam in all states. Unfortunetly, I forgot the name of the company. They are located in Montgomery, AL. Your state licensing board can provide you with the information/address.

    I wish you luck in your educational pursuit.

    Jeffrey

  7. #7
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by Jeffrey Levine:
    I am an on-again, off-again reader/poster on this forum. I just read your post and would like to comment.

    I would suggest that you go with a USA regionally accredited school. California State Approval may or may not work, even in California, and a doctorate from such a school assures you that you will NOT qualify to sit for the licensing exam (aka, EPPP)elsewhere.

    Most, if not all, states require a doctorate from a regionally accredited school to sit for the exam. (Despite popular belief, however, APA accreditation is not usually a prerequisite for licensure). Saybrook meets that criteria.

    The publisher of "the exam" also publishes a series of books including one that lists all the USA doctorate programs ("Designation Guide"?) that are accepted as meeting the educational requirements for sitting for the licensing exam in all states. Unfortunetly, I forgot the name of the company. They are located in Montgomery, AL. Your state licensing board can provide you with the information/address.

    I wish you luck in your educational pursuit.

    Jeffrey
    Thanks Jeffrey,

    I am leaning towards saybrook simply because I'd feel better about having an RA degree. As far as licensure in CA, though, I am certain that both state approved schools I mentioned (Ryokan and Trinity college of Grad studies)both meet the requirements for CA. I talked to the Board of Pychology in CA and spoke with recent licensed grads from both schools. If I plan to stay in CA in private practice, there seems to be no problem with the state approved degree from those schools. They are much less expensive and require less time. and although not accredited, I don't have to explain that I got a correspondence pych degree. I wonder if I was a client, would I care more about the RA or the fact that the therapist studied in a traditional classroom and not through distance learning. Honestly, if I had no money concerns, I would go to Saybrook in a heartbeat over the State approved school.




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  9. #8
    barryfoster is offline Registered User
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    Have you taken a look at Fielding?
    http://www.fielding.edu/

    IMO, Fielding is among the most ignored and misunderstood schools on this consumer-centric board.

    But hey, what can I say? .... I'm a homer! :-)

    Barry Foster

  10. #9
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    Very expensive BUT APA approved which certainly widens the job market. About 6 years ago I used to receive the APA Monitor and I would say the majority of ads specified APA accredited degree and a number also APA approved internships.

    There have been attempts to develop alternative bodies. I could be wrong but I do not believe they have met with a great deal of success.

    At any rate, good suggestion Dr. Foster

    North

    Originally posted by barryfoster:
    Have you taken a look at Fielding?
    http://www.fielding.edu/

    IMO, Fielding is among the most ignored and misunderstood schools on this consumer-centric board.

    But hey, what can I say? .... I'm a homer! :-)

    Barry Foster

  11. #10
    drwetsch is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by John Bear:
    "I could get licensed through several state approved schools..."

    Is that really still the case? I haven't been tracking this, but it was mentioned here earlier this year that California Coast U., one of the largest unaccredited schools, no longer qualified to have its students take the psych exams.

    As for the usefulness of a state-approved degree: the good news is that 99% of your clients or potential clients would neither know nor care where you got your degree as long as you had the license. The other news is that if the opportunity ever arose to do something wonderful in another state*, there could well be problems with becoming relicensed there.
    _________
    * Ecstacy? Catatonic? New Jersey?
    This is interesting with Cal Coast being denied as SCUPS stills states on their web site that their doctoral Psych. programs will lead to licensure in CA. See:
    http://www.scups.edu/home/Catalog/catalog_approval.htm

    John

    John R. Wetsch, Ph.D.

    B.S. '01 University of North Dakota
    B.S. '84 Excelsior College (USNY/Regents)
    M.A. '89 Antioch University, The McGregor School
    Master of Astronomy, '02, University of Western Sydney
    Ph.D. '94 Nova Southeastern University

  12. #11
    David Williams is offline Registered User
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    I'd also like to comment. From the perspective of a licensed, practicing psychologist I would encourage you to attend an accredited program; not just RA but also APA-approved. There IS a pecking order and it will enhance your marketability. If you elect to seek training through a non-APA approved program I recommend that you request information about the school's internship placement success rate. This can be a roadblock and students have had their degree completion delayed by a year or more because they didn't obtain an internship berth. Those who attend non-APA approved programs are categorically excluded from the largest source in the country which is the VA. Nor are they eligible for military internships which pay very well. Furthermore, imagine you're an internship training director and you have two roughly equivalent applicants, one APA-approved the other not. Who do you think gets the slot? Yes, you well may be able to realize the ultimate goal of obtaining licensure in psychology but, at the end of the day, the wall is going to be much more difficult to scale. Go in through the front door.

  13. #12
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by David Williams:
    I'd also like to comment. From the perspective of a licensed, practicing psychologist I would encourage you to attend an accredited program; not just RA but also APA-approved. There IS a pecking order and it will enhance your marketability. If you elect to seek training through a non-APA approved program I recommend that you request information about the school's internship placement success rate. This can be a roadblock and students have had their degree completion delayed by a year or more because they didn't obtain an internship berth. Those who attend non-APA approved programs are categorically excluded from the largest source in the country which is the VA. Nor are they eligible for military internships which pay very well. Furthermore, imagine you're an internship training director and you have two roughly equivalent applicants, one APA-approved the other not. Who do you think gets the slot? Yes, you well may be able to realize the ultimate goal of obtaining licensure in psychology but, at the end of the day, the wall is going to be much more difficult to scale. Go in through the front door.
    wfeff


  14. #13
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by David Williams:
    I'd also like to comment. From the perspective of a licensed, practicing psychologist I would encourage you to attend an accredited program; not just RA but also APA-approved. There IS a pecking order and it will enhance your marketability. If you elect to seek training through a non-APA approved program I recommend that you request information about the school's internship placement success rate. This can be a roadblock and students have had their degree completion delayed by a year or more because they didn't obtain an internship berth. Those who attend non-APA approved programs are categorically excluded from the largest source in the country which is the VA. Nor are they eligible for military internships which pay very well. Furthermore, imagine you're an internship training director and you have two roughly equivalent applicants, one APA-approved the other not. Who do you think gets the slot? Yes, you well may be able to realize the ultimate goal of obtaining licensure in psychology but, at the end of the day, the wall is going to be much more difficult to scale. Go in through the front door.
    Thanks. I agree with you. I am not interested in working for the VA or being part of a large mental health provider, though. I am interested in private practice. As far as APA is concerned, I dont think prospective clients will even know what APA approval is. In any event, I think culture and fit are much more important than APA considering my career goals. and Saybrooks orientation is very attractive. However, I know several psychologists that went to state approved programs in CA. and have thriving practices. In terms of being licensed none of them had any problems whatsoever in passing the written and oral exams in CA(I think the board of psychology in CA is even considering getting rid of the oral exam altogether.)I agree with you that a person stands a much better chance of landing traditional type employment by going thru an APA approved program and internship.


  15. #14
    irat is offline Registered User
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    As far as APA is concerned, I dont think prospective clients will even know what APA approval is. In any event, I think culture and fit are much more important than APA considering my career goals. and Saybrooks orientation is very attractive. However,... In terms of being I agree with you that a person stands a much better chance of landing traditional type employment by going thru an APA approved program and internship.

    I would like to comment on the APA recognition. Most states require that prospective psychologists pass tests. In theory those from APA recognized institutions should have a better chance of passing the test. I wonder if someone out there has statistics?
    The second point is that many states will not license someone who did not go through an APA approved program. So you really need to check the individual state requirements.
    All the best! irat

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  17. #15
    psychhopeful is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by irat:
    As far as APA is concerned, I dont think prospective clients will even know what APA approval is. In any event, I think culture and fit are much more important than APA considering my career goals. and Saybrooks orientation is very attractive. However,... In terms of being I agree with you that a person stands a much better chance of landing traditional type employment by going thru an APA approved program and internship.

    I would like to comment on the APA recognition. Most states require that prospective psychologists pass tests. In theory those from APA recognized institutions should have a better chance of passing the test. I wonder if someone out there has statistics?
    The second point is that many states will not license someone who did not go through an APA approved program. So you really need to check the individual state requirements.
    All the best! irat
    Thank you. I am aware that a CA state approved program will limit me to practice only in CA. However, I have lived here all my life and have no desire to move out of CA. Regarding testing statistics, the Board of Psychology website in CA. has an archive showing detailed stats for students from all schools attempting the psych boards here in CA. Anyone can look up the individual schools they are interested in. The Board of Behavioral Science(for LCSW's and MFT's)have similar stats on their websites.

    It seems to me that some of the posts may be suggesting that if I don't go APA, it makes no difference if I have an RA degree or a state approved one(given my preferences and career goals)


  18. #16
    David Williams is offline Registered User
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    Originally posted by irat:


    I would like to comment on the APA recognition. Most states require that prospective psychologists pass tests. In theory those from APA recognized institutions should have a better chance of passing the test. I wonder if someone out there has statistics?
    The second point is that many states will not license someone who did not go through an APA approved program. So you really need to check the individual state requirements.
    All the best! irat
    Hello irat,

    I suspect that data about pass rates is available from an organization that is comprised of the various state and (Canadian) provincial psychology licensure boards. I can't recall the exact title or acronym at the moment but it serves as an umbrella organization for these sorts of issues. I would imagine that folk from APA-approved programs would fare better but, in truth, I don't know this to be the case for an absolute certainty. With regard to the issue of simply being able to apply to sit for the EPPP, I don't believe that any state imposes a ban on graduates of non-approved programs.

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