The Easy Degree Debate

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by firstmode4c, Apr 21, 2008.

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  1. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    I can totally understand wanting to get an easy degree (least amount of rigor)

    Say you are a family man, love the cookouts on the weekends, going out once every 2 weeks to see a movie, taking your wife out to dinner, then walking around the mall together for an hour afterwards, etc.

    Say you have a job, getting an associates, bachelors, masters, or doctorate will elevate your pay or AT LEAST give you an almost guaranteed way to get a better position in your company.

    You enjoy your job and you field, you do well at work anyways, you would like to maximize your pay, so you can enjoy your family more.

    RA is a badge of quality, if it falls under the badge of RA, then it meets the least standard of what people approve as a real degree. The School passes inspections to keep RA status, so they are far from a degree mill.

    So, what is the problem seeking the RA programs with the least rigor, so you can maximize your credentials and bring in more money for your family? You may even learn something along the way, maybe.

    If the school is RA, and you can pass and complete the degree, least amount of rigor compared with other RA schools, you are still an RA graduate, so what is the problem? You now make more money for your family, you are happy, spending time with your wife, cookouts, life is good!

    So what is the problem looking for the least amount of rigor in an RA degree?
     
  2. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    and on that note, what are the easiest RA Associate, bachelors, Masters, and Doctorate?

    I am thinking, based on other opinions and reviews I have read it goes like this:

    Associates: University of Pheonix (heard from many, you do not even need to read the text books in the classes, just wing the assignments, turn something in of low quality, on time, any quality level as long as it is the least bit quality, you get an ok grade.)

    Bachelors: University of Pheonix (heard from many, you do not even need to read the text books in the classes, just wing the assignments, turn something in of low quality, on time, any quality level as long as it is the least bit quality, you get an ok grade.)

    Masters: University of Pheonix (heard from many, you do not even need to read the text books in the classes, just wing the assignments, turn something in of low quality, on time, any quality level as long as it is the least bit quality, you get an ok grade. Also heard, many just wing it in group projects and get the same grade as the hardest working member of their group, no matter how they are complained about.)

    Doctorate: University of Pheonix? (Not sure, have not heard)
     
  3. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Well, let's see...searching for the easiest may cause some concerns - what if the low quality caused the school to lose accreditiation, with degrees being so accessable don't you want to set yourself apart for the rest of the pack with a high quality degree, wouldn't your employer actually expect you to know something if you have a degree? How about pride?

    You state, "I am thinking, based on other opinions and reviews I have read it goes like this:..." Who is giving the opinion and who is giving the review? I completed an AA from UoP but is was an AA based on credit recognition and I only had to take one class which was very easy. I also took two classes at a campus to transfer to my BS program from COSC. One was really easy (basic computers and I had my MCSE and A+) and one was really hard (project management).

    These are some pretty general and ignorant statements to make. I could say I have heard the same for many school regarding low quality of work...ITT comes to mind.
     
  4. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>


    As far as rigor and various majors- for me that means anything NOT math/science, but your mileage may vary.

    I'm going to be honest, and personally I don't see anything wrong with you asking the question you did. People don't turn to distance learning because they want to spend 5+ years working on a bachelor degree that they may never complete, everyone hopes to find a short cut. Online degrees can be much faster (I notice A LOT of online schools don't use 16 week semesters like B & M colleges do!) and there is flexibility of when you can study and do work. Since you don't physically have to be on campus for a certain amount of time, you can reclaim those hours for study. Online degrees also allows people to finish a degree they may otherwise not.

    Personally, I enjoyed using CLEP exams to test out of my 100 and 200 level gen ed classes. This was self-paced, a fraction of the cost, and was a very direct way of checking the box. CLEP/DSST exams don't get caught up in an agenda or opinion of the subject (like in classrooms) so studying for them is is very predictable. With the help of CLEP exams along side of my classes, I will be finished with my degree in a total of 18 months.

    Rigor is up to the person- just how hard something is to me doesn't have anything to do with how hard it is for you. Really, why - how - and where you get your bachelor degree is a personal decision- one that you don't have to defend here- you'll probably get all the answers you need using the search feature, but when you ask the question publicly, some people feel obligated to police your mind for you.
     
  5. skidadl

    skidadl Member

    Easy is a relative term, I think. As Cookderosa stated it is really up to the person.

    Before coming to Degreeinfo my highest level of grade completion was the 7th grade. Some of the courses that I have taken have been challenging to me. Even though I have always been smart the learning gaps in certain areas were definately there. To an extent I still have my struggles. As a result I have avoided certain subject that would be a monumental task for someone like myself. I just do not have the time or desire to tackle certain things right now in my life. I'm sure that I will at some point because I hate leaving things left undone.

    We all chose what mountains that we want to climb in life. It is not up to anyone to judge what another does with his/her life. IMO, as long as one works hard and contributes to society then they are doing their part.

    I could have chosen to go to Dental or Law school, but I just don't have it in my heart to take on a challenge like that academically. Personally, with 6 kids, owning a successful business and still pursuing an MBA is a big enough mountain for me to climb. I am not ashamed at all of myself not going for the higher ranked degree. Don't get me wrong, I regret not going to High School and having to overcome the learning gaps (still working on it).
     
  6. jason96r

    jason96r New Member

    I think that at any college no matter what ranking they may have your education is what you make of it. To me everyone learns differently and while distance learning may seem easier in my experience it is more difficult, though some schools like UOP may be different. I'm finishing my degree at AMU at would definitely not consider it to be easy. Anyway if you like to learn by teaching yourself then DL and taking Cleps could be the easiest by going to the Big 3. Plus those schools will allow many credits to be transfered so they could be the easiest way to get a degree.

    I plan to use on to get a degree in Criminal Justice, as I'm a Homeland Security major and before that I was a CJ major so I will be able to basically not waste all of my CJ credits.
     
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    An RA school with the least amount of academic rigor is most likely lower on the respected scale. Respect and probably learning less are the only problems that I see.
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    If ease is measured by not learning anything new, then the assessment colleges (TESC, Excelsior, COSC) are the "easiest" because you don't need to learn anything other than (in the words of Steve Levicoff) learning to work the system to demonstrate your pre-existing knowledge.

    I've taught for UoP for the last few years, and while I can only comment on my particular field (CJ), it's most definitely not easy. I can, have, and will fail people who don't meet course standards, which are far from easy.
     
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Well, a degree usually indicates that a graduate knows something about his or her major subject. When employers favor education in hiring and promotions, that's what they are looking for. It's true that some HR departments kind of turn that into a mechanical check-the-box exercise, but nevertheless, the only real justification for paying graduates more is what they're hopefully bringing to the organization.

    One of the old threads you pulled up provides an example. Somebody with a bachelors degree wanted to supplement his income with college adjunct teaching. So he wanted this board to recommend the easiest possible masters degrees. But what would such a person end up with that he could pass on to his own students? What would justify his teaching at all, apart from the fact that he wanted to and needed the bucks?
     
  10. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    I think ease is definitely in the eye of the beholder, as many have agreed. When I began the journey to earn a masters in education, I started with UoP. The subject material was not difficult, as it simply required your ability to apply it to your own classroom. What I found difficult about their program was the learning team idea. I hated that, and it is for that reason that I always recommend colleagues to avoid UoP at all costs. I don't believe my success should be based on the efforts, or lack thereof, of people I'll never meet.

    Walden, on the other hand, relied on coursework that was solely completed by the individual student. Again, the material was not that difficult as, for me, it was easy to apply it to my classroom. However, the assignments were challenging and really made me think.

    I'm sure both schools' degrees would be equally accepted, but I am definitely happy with the path I chose. I took 2 courses per 8 week term, which involved doing a lot of papers, but I enjoyed it. I believe that was key. Because I enjoyed it, I didn't find the program "difficult".

    -Matt
     
  11. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    Yea, I have heard many bad things about ITT Also.

    I mainly got my info from eopinions and sites like that. Also, searching this board and reading peoples personal experiences and what they think. That is where I got most of my info.

    ITT was definitely not as hard as my local community college (some say the freshmen classes at the CC are harder than the Freshmen classes at the local university though)

    I did learn a lot from ITT though, because of all the hands on labs and reading all the text books. The hands on labs were invaluable.
     
  12. 1virtualprof

    1virtualprof New Member

    I've taken online and independent study courses at several different grad schools, among them APU, Jones International U, Fresno Pacific U, Cal State East Bay, and NCU. I've also taken grad courses at three local universities. It's a real pain in the butt to send all those transcripts, believe me!

    The rigor or difficulty of a course is determined by how many assignments one has to write. Reading assignments are irrelevant. I have never read a textbook or other assigned reading for any course -- as in sit down and read Chapter 1 or this article or that reading simply because it's been assigned. I use course readings for research, culling out the material I need to write the assignments. The more assignments one needs to write, the more research one has to do.

    In every course, online or on campus locally, the day I get the syllabus, I start making my list and setting a schedule and doing research for the assignments. Then I write up all the discussion postings and complete all other writing assignments, including research papers. Once I've finished all the writing assignments (including discussion postings) for the course, all that's left is turning in the work on the due dates and responding to discussions if required.

    The most rigorous courses were at Jones International Univesrity. There were more assignments and the professors were more engaged in the discussions and more exacting in their grading. I had to write more for those courses than at any other school, including my three local universities where I attended class on campus.

    The second most rigorous was NCU simply by virtue of the sheer volume of writing for each course. But even so, I finished every course in two weeks (writing only nights and weekends)

    The least rigorous was APU. I finished all the course work for my APU courses by the end of the first weekend of the courses. How "rigorous" can it be if students can write up all the assignments in a long weekend -- AND make A's?

    Professors' expectations also determine how easy or hard any course may be. If the prof is an "easy grader" then students will spend less time writing assignments. The easiest profs are at NCU and APU. I never got more than "good job" or "fine insights" or "keep up the good work" from those two schools (and made A's in every course).

    "Rigorous" equates to the time necessary to complete the assignments. The fewer the assignments and the easier the prof grades, the less rigorous the course.

    And what about learning - does that mean anything - or is it just the grades? Everyone needs or wants to learn something different. Once I've read what I need to read in order to complete the assignments, then I read for pleasure, choosing material that interests me. I've never found a textbook that's interesting but many of the readings on the supplemental or suggested readings lists that are often included with syllabi are pretty cool.

    ~VP~
     
  13. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    Well, I did not try to mention difficulty because what I mean is Rigor.

    Say you have a knowlege and interest in IT, Taking a degree in IT will be easier for you than any other degree. That makes sense.

    Now, say you take IT, a computer management class. RA School. Say you are required to post 15 times a week in your discussions, each being 200 words or more. Also, They require rigorous assignments and 10 to 15 page papers, per week, sometimes multiple papers.

    Now, say you take IT, a computer management class. RA School. Studying the same text book as the above example. Say you are required to post 4 times a week, with however many words you want in your posts, as long as you make your point. Also, they require a short assignment per week along with a 3 to 6 page paper every other week.

    The difference between the two examples above is RIGOR. Not if one is easier or harder.

    So, What is the problem with going with an RA school that has the least amount of Rigor?

    There is nothing wrong with the University of Pheonix. Nothing wrong, I am happy they exist and help people further their careers. But I have heard they require the least amount of RIGOR when it comes to an RA school.
     
  14. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    ITT Tech does not require a lot of RIGOR, but you can learn a lot there.

    RIGOR is what can take precious time away from your family and spending wonderful time with your children.

    The point I was making is what is wrong with seeking lower amounts of RIGOR.

    I admit, I am looking for a Master Degree that is RA that does not require as much rigor, but I do not want one with the least amount of rigor. I did not bring this up to try and find a school for me with lower Rigor, I just thought the subject was interesting.

    I am planning on University of Maryland-University College, Masters in IT - Focus on Telecommunications Management if they take NA Bachelors degree.

    I am also considering the University of Denver-University College, Masters in Applied Science in Telecommunications, but they require an RA bachelors... So i would have to do some fiddling here and there to get that to work. Could be time consuming and costly.

    I am deciding on both of these schools due to the fact that I hear they have a managable amount of RIGOR in their programs.


    I have heard that Keller has an almost unmanagable amount of RIGOR in their online programs. I will also not be considering Polytechnic University Masters in Telecommunications Networks as they appear to have a lot of RIGOR. Also I am not interested in taking the GRE exam. I do not mind having to write a thesis, I know I can learn a lot from doing that, but if I choose a school that does not require a Thesis, this will let me spend more time doing the things that are really important in life.

    Snippet from Polytechnic University

    "Admission to a Master of Science in Telecommunication Networks requires an undergraduate degree in computer science, computer engineering or electrical engineering, with a superior undergraduate record from an accredited institution. The Graduate Record Exam (GRE) is recommended. Applicants having comparable degrees in other fields will be considered for admission on an individual basis."

    This School also requires a Thesis (as does University of Denver)

    The above school has much more rigor than The University of Maryland-University College, who does not require a GRE for entrance, or for you to previously hold an engineering degree to get in, nor requires a thesis.
     
  15. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    I work with a fellow that must get his BA or will lose his job. He chose UOP because he heard it would be the least difficult. He came in on Monday of this week in a state of unbelief saying he got ad F in his systems analysis class.

    I have no tie or interest in UOP, but I think it may be unwise to assume UOP is as you described.
     
  16. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    The topic of this discussion thread raises some interesting points regarding education in general and more specifically about distance education. While some people earn an undergraduate or graduate degree for employment and promotional purposes (an HR check box requirement), there are many people seeking an education and the gaining of knowledge in an area of study.

    The quality of education depends upon three primary factors: the student, the teacher, and the curriculum. The student only gets out of their educational experience a return proportional to the effort invested in the pursuit of their education. People learn in a variety of ways so for some people testing out is a viable means of demonstrating knowledge in a subject. Those who barely pass the tests and think that is acceptable are no different than on-campus students who are happy with a C average. The prior learning assessment option available at many institutions normally requires more effort on the part of the student to earn a passing grade. The teachers play a key role in setting the tone of the course. In some courses, interaction between student and teacher is less important. However, as independent learners we are expected to be more proactive. Meaningful comments on assignments cannot be underestimated. The curriculum varies between institutions even in the same subject whether on-campus or distance education. The net benefit of each course is still largely determined by the effort expended by the student.

    There is no such thing as an easy degree, apart from diploma mills. There is no rule saying everyone must earn a degree to be successful in life. Take the time to evaluate the reasons you want to earn a degree. Everyone prefers courses in which the student has an interest while trying to minimize the courses that are of lesser interest; that is human nature and a valid action to a point. Many of the writing intensive courses are really intended to develop the analytical, reasoning, and writing skills of the student - to cheat oneself of these vital skills is a mistake.
     
  17. firstmode4c

    firstmode4c Member

    "There is no such thing as an easy degree, apart from diploma mills."

    Yes, but there are degrees that require less rigor than other degrees.

    Some Masters programs want you to write a thesis, some want you to write a thesis the size of a book. Some do not require a thesis at all.
     
  18. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    At the undergraduate level, I agree the academic rigor is open to debate within some programmes offered at some schools. There are people who argue Thomas Edison State College is less academically rigorous because this school maps many 200-level courses transferred into the degree to 300-level and 400-level courses listed in their catalogue. Charter Oak State College requires senior courses at the 300-level and 400-level as part of their degree requirements. Which school is better? It really depends on your goals and life experiences.

    At the graduate level, the choice between a masters degree with or without a thesis comes down to the use to which the post-baccalaureate degree is to be put. If you want to continue on to a doctorate degree, then having written a masters thesis would probably be beneficial, at least from the perspective of gaining insight into the thesis researching and writing process. On the other hand, if the purpose of the graduate degree is professional, rather than academic, avoiding the thesis is not necessarily a detractor from the value. The presence or absence of a thesis requirement is not a singular indicator of academic rigor. Masters degrees, by and large, are research centric with the possible exception of professional masters degrees.

    This is a good topic to which I hope the more learned members of this forum will contribute.
     

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