Episcopal/Anglican DL Master's Degree...

Does anyone know of such? Or perhaps such a degree that would be acceptable as ordination preparation in the Episcopal Church?

 

Wow, Michael! Are you considering a bit of a change of affiliation?

 

CL,

Possibly. I used to be Episcopalian.

Good to hear from you!

 

I looked at this myself a couple of years ago; you might contact the University of the South (in Sewanee, TN) and see what you can see. If memory serves, they offer some kind of negotiable-residency arrangement.

Bear in mind also that the Episcopal church, like the United Methodist church, uses an "M.Div. equivalency + internship" standard rather than a pure M.Div. standard. So it might be possible to earn an online M.Div. from, say, Southern Christian University, then supplement it with residential seminar courses from Sewanee.

Good luck!


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Greetings Michael!

Tom has as always a good suggestion. By the way, I too was a "used to be an Episcopalian" or in my case Anglican.

If I were you I would talk to someone on the Bishop's postulants committee and ask about acceptable degrees. My understanding from a priest is that these things can tend to be somewhat political (ie if the committee has a liberal bent that will reflect in who is accepted at least as far as things like deacons go). The priest I spoke with was conservative and did not appear too fond of the idea of Liberty but did think well of Fuller. This conversation was in terms of my thought at one point to prepare for the diaconate.

Another suggestion would be to see if the
University of London B.D. would be acceptable as you have (IIRC) other degrees already. Depending upon your age, etc this may work for you. This of course was the standard course of study before the M.Div took over and at least in the case I looked at parallelled the M.Div accept for the fact that you did not have the first undergraduate degree. In Canada the entry for the M.Div (Anglican) was expected to be an undergraduate degree in a non theological discpline. The idea was that you were intellectually better prepared for the job of a parish priest if you had a wide educational background in addition to the theological prep. This was another reason why at the time the average age of a seminarian was in their 30's and I was told to get some experience in order to better relate to parishioners. The seminary principal felt that someone who had gone straight from High School to college to seminary at the ripe age of 23 was too young and had no life experience to be a parish priest. I ended up on another path through the military and that is another story.

Anyway, back to your question. I would work very closely with your parish priest (etc) in order to look at options. If you are currently in another denomination it may be easier for you to do an M.Div somewhaere else and then come in with some additional coursework than trying from the inside of the Episcopal church (I don't know) to do an M.Div at a non Episcopalian seminary.

If Liberty U will work for you they have one of the most flexible RA M.Div's around but some Episcopalians are going to see "Falwell" and get perturbed.

Good luck!

North

 

Another thought is that if you are conservative I would talk to some of the conservative Bishops (eg Dallas/Ft. Worth).
If I remember he was heading a group calling for a non geographical conservative synod.

I understand there have also recently been some "Missionary" Bishops elevated by foreign Bishops. If the missionary bishops can sponsor you you they may be flexible but of course you will be afoul of the establishment. Griswold was not too happy. As you are no doubt aware there is a lot of political warfare going on between conservatives & liberals within the church.

North

 

Tom and North,

Thanks!

I've often thought that in order to pursue ministry in the Episcopal church, one would have to be independently wealthy since a person couldn't serve as pastor while attending seminary and thus have an income. I wonder if this is the case.

BTW, North, what denomination are you in now?

 

Anyone know anything about the Australian College of Theology? They are Anglican, but do they offer an external MDiv?

 

I don't know, but I can tell you that the majority of Episcopal priests I've met pursued the ministry as a second career; the only person whose ordination I've semi-followed worked for decades as an attorney, then sought--and achieved--ordination as an Episcopal priest, and now serves as associate pastor at one of the largest Episcopal churches in Mississippi.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

I wonder what the ex-attorney does when he gets to the part about the "scribes and pharisees"?
Nosborne (Reform Jew of the Pharisee pursuasion)

 

I attend a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. The LCMS is conservative and believes in biblical inerrancy, etc. It was a good compromise as my wife is Roman Catholic. I enjoy many things about the Catholic church including the Glory & Praise music. Some of the theology I take issue with. We tried a Baptist Church for a while. It had the best preaching (expository) I have ever heard but the whole oyster cracker and juice for communion thing just did not sit well after coming from a liturgical background.

There are a number of synods within Lutheranism. The ELCA is more liberal (in general) and a recent LCMS convention resolution stated the ELCA could not be considered an orthodox Lutheran body. This did not do too much for dialogue. When people like Hank Hanegraff (CRI) refer to Lutheran theology in a negative tone it is the ELCA they are usually referring to. It is the ELCA that now has pulpit fellowship with the Episcopalians.

Having said all of this I am also interested in others ideas and believe that differences should be treated reverently. It is okay for a denomination to believe they have achieved the best theological practice as long as they allow others to believe the same way. I disagree with Mormon Theology but I have intellectually enjoyed reading their apologetics sites and the explanations of their theology and why they believe they are neither Catholic nor Protestant but a Restoration Theology.

I left the Episcopal Church because it became too liberal and almost Unitarian. Conservatives within have been fighting a losing battle. By the same token I am not in line with conservatives within the denomination who want the 1928 prayer book only and good old 19th century hymns. My response is "lighten up guys". I guess I might be somewhere around a liturgical Baptist which is what had attracted me to this particular LCMS church. It had a pastor who was a Baptist in ecclesiastical robes.

North

 

North,

Thanks for sharing; that's fascinating. Remind me again why you're pursuing a theology degree--to teach, pastoral ministry, both?

BTW, how do you feel about infant baptism? That's been a theological thorn in my side for quite some time.

 

I know you're throwing out a little dry humor, but it is an interesting topic. When the 'part about the "scribes and pharisees"' was first taking place, the tension was entirely internal to Judaism because all the first Christians were Jews, a sect or cult, depending on who you asked. Even after a Pharisee (Apostle Paul) opened the faith to Gentiles, there was still great internal tension in Jerusalem because the faith there was associated with Judaism. It took more than a half-century for that tension to be recast as tension between Christian and Jew, when, because of demographics, Christianity became a "Gentile religion."

In consideration to this, there is one current line of thought that NT scripture should be reinterpreted from a first-century, Jewish perspective since the interpretations and translations, starting in the second century, have a Western-centric cast to them.

 

Agreed. And if I see one more blonde-haired, blue-eyed Jesus...

Here's the trouble: Jesus spoke Aramaic. The Gospels, including Jesus's sayings, were written down in Koine Greek. There's nothing more western than hellenism, so we've already got one strike against us when it comes to retracing what Jesus actually said. Lucky for us, it's highly likely that Jesus spoke using very simple language (since he was preaching to a lay audience), and simple language tends to translate exceptionally well.

Got a nifty book today, along similar lines: Christology in Dialogue (Pilgrim Press, 1993), edited by Robert Berkey and Sarah Edwards. 24 essays running, well, the gamut. Six random sample titles:

"The Greco-Roman Background of New Testament Christology" by Thomas Schmeller (trans. Irmgard Doring Klee)
"Christology in Dialogue with Gnosticism" by Elaine Pagels (!)
"The Miracle of Jesus: Muslim Reflections on the Divine Word" by Mahmoud Ayouh
"Christian Self-Criticism in Light of Judaism" by Hans Kung (trans. Kenneth Brewer and Steffen Losel)
"Christology in Dialogue with Existentialism" by John Macquarrie
"Christology and Interfaith Dialogue: The Problem of Uniqueness" by Karl-Josef Kuschel (trans. Kenneth Brewer)

Mind-blowing stuff, if you're into that sort of thing. I bought my copy used off BookFinder for something in the neighborhood of three bucks.


Cheers,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Jesus spoke Aramaic? Hunh. Well, that makes sense, I guess. Most of Talmud is written in Aramaic instead of Hebrew, which Aramaic very much resembles. We also use Aramaic forms for certain legalistic things, like getting married and divorced!
Thing about Aramaic is, it's harder to pronounce than Hebrew and borrows a LOT from other ancient tongues so vocabulary is always a challenge.
Language is a problem. The thing that keeps me from pursuing Maimonidies is that HE wrote in ARABIC!
Nosborne

 

You already know the numerals....

 

Hey Michael,

I am pursuing the D.Th. in order to earn an academic doctorate, enhance my secular knowledge of the area of counseling to include Christian Counseling, have fun doing research, and hopefully put it to use on my job or wherever else God may lead.

As for the issue of infant baptism, I see both sides of the argument. Strong cases can be made either way and I think the bible is not necessarily absolutely clear. I have heard good arguments with regard to sprinkling versus immersion (eg. OT refernces to the practice of sprinkling among Jews). It is somewhat like the arguments between Calvinists and Arminians. Both sides seem to have biblical support or be able to interpret scriptural passages to support their thesis. Most church goers these days seem to fall into the Arminian camp without realizing it. I know I did. However, I found some of the Calvinist arguments very compelling although somewhat unsettling.

To bring this back to the DL topic. If anyone is intersted in the subject of infant baptism or Calvinism vs Arminianism you might want to try Family Radio School of the Bible. Harold Camping has an interesting history (predicting the *possible second coming in the early 1990's). However, FRSB offers free courses in theological subjects from Hebrew & biblical (Koine) Greek to Calvinist interpretations of Grace. You can earn certificates or an unaccredited Associate of Religious Education degree (that is the only degree they offer and the are up front that it is unaccredited).
http://www.familyradio.com

Michael, remind me again what denomination you are and where you are at in your academic journey. You had done a lot of research on M.Th programs I believe.

North

 

It seems to me that the Gospels DO mention the Jewish custom of sprinkling food and hand washing (for which there is a SPECIFIC blessing, by the way). However, the Gospel in question CONDEMNS the practice, does it not?
Orthodox Jews have an entire set of practices surrounding the "mikvah", or ritual bath. Men, in general, immerse themselves every Friday afternoon. Women immerse themselves following menstruation and childbirth. There are also several laws and customs regarding the "kashering" of cooking and eating utensiles.
There is a Mikvah in El Paso belonging to the Conservative synagogue but I do not know whetherit is much used.
Reform Jews do not, in general, make any use of the Mikvah except in the case of converts to Judaism. Immersion is optional in Reform practice but mandatory for Conservative and Orthodox.
Is this where baptism came from?
Nosborne

 

North,

Thanks for your reply.

As far as denominations and theological education are concerned, at present the only thing I'm sure of is that I'm not sure of anything.

I grew up Baptist, but I've also been Methodist and Episcopalian, and I've been strongly influenced by Quakerism. A seminary professor once asked me to describe myself theologically; I thought a moment and told him, "I'm a moderate, non-Calvinist Baptist with strong Quaker and liturgical influences." (!)

Yes, I've researched many postgraduate theology degrees, and I appreciate all the input and assistance I've received from folks on this board--particularly Tom Head, CL Seibel, Russell Morris, you, and others.

 

Online Courses which lead to ordination

Check this School. Some students have met all of the educational requirements for ordination through their CEU courses.

http://www.cdsp.edu/center_online.php