CLEP - Analysis and Interpret Literature

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Shawn Ambrose, Jan 18, 2008.

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  1. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    My well read 14 year old daughter successfully completed the Analysis and Interpret Literature CLEP exam today. The only prep work she did was to take a practice test last week to build confidence. She earned a scaled score of 74 (80 question exam - scale is from 20 - 80).

    Shawn
     
  2. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    That's awesome! The more CLEPs she completes today, the less tuition to pay tomorrow!
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It's a reading test--at least it was when I passed it many years ago.
     
  4. BMWGuinness

    BMWGuinness New Member

    While the thought process behind this is sound, I've been questioning it a lot lately.

    My 14 year old nephew came to me asking about the computer field. In response, I went above and beyond the call of duty and brought to his attention the possibility of Dual Enrollment in Community College once he reaches 10th grade and utilizing his time to study computer courses as his electives.

    I told him about the advantage of passing CLEP exams that would help him attain college credit, and we mapped out a plan for him to pass 10 exams over the next few years which would fulfill 75% of his college credit, and the other 25% could be used studying computers.

    However, the more I think about it, the more I realize that while passing CLEP exams saves money and time, is it really advantageous? Does it possibly restrict his learning and social skills that high school and college courses provide?

    I've mapped out a plan for him that could let him attain an MBA at 21, but the more I think about it, the more I think it might not be the right idea.

    He is NOT being home schooled, and is attending public school. Could achieving too much in the form of CLEP exams be detrimental?

    I'm torn.
     
  5. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I think CLEP's are good to move quickly through and get a degree. I think if an 18 year old misses out on the educational "experience" of school, it could hurt them in a social sense. Would they gain the contacts and socials skills of their peers?
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I'm not a fan of home-schooling for high school, solely based on the socialization aspect. However, once teens are off to college, very few of their HS friends stay in close contact anyway, since they're probably going to different colleges.

    After a VERY brief foray into a traditional university after high school, I didn't set foot into a college classroom until almost 10 years later. I did over 30 credits by CLEP and DANTES, more by portfolio, and I don't feel as though I missed anything.

    If socialization is a concern, just make sure he's in a classroom at some point. Gen Ed courses (which can be covered with CLEP/DANTES) are usually like cattle drives at traditional colleges anyway, so he can gain social skills during the specialized courses which will have smaller enrollment.
     
  7. Fortunato

    Fortunato Member

    I think that CLEP exams are in and of themselves neutral. It's how you use them that can be detrimental. A bright 14 year old kid with an interest in computers who is racking up CLEPs as a way to add academic challenge to his or her life and maybe save some dough on college tuition later is very different from a 14-year old kid whose every move for the next seven years is being planned so that he or she can end up with an MBA at 21.

    Older students look at CLEP as a shortcut to a degree - test out of the easy stuff as fast as you can, so you can get that sheepskin in your hand faster. That's a completely valid way of looking at things, but not everyone uses CLEP because they're in a hurry. For young people, the real beauty of coming into college with AP and CLEP credit is that it gives you options and flexibility you might not otherwise have.

    If you don't have to spend two years on general education requirements, then you get to explore more: do a double major, get a masters degree. If you want, you have the option of proceeding more deliberately through your program - instead of loading up with 18 credit hours a semester, why not cut it back to 12 and do really, really well in those classes? And of course, if you're the ultra-motivated super kid, you do have the option of blowing through your four-year degree in two years and getting out in the workaday world at 20. There's nothing saying you can't still party with your college buddies after you get a jay-oh-bee.

    I'd encourage your nephew to take a few CLEP tests, and maybe even some IT certification exams if he's really excited about a career in the computer field, but don't lay out his adolescence on a check sheet. That's taking a good thing too far.
     
  8. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    Homeschooling and CLEP

    One of the issues with homeschooling high school children is validating the legitimacy of the homeschool transcript; in other words, how can you demonstrate that what you say you did is actually what you did?

    CLEP is one of the tools that we are electing to use. By passing a CLEP exam, it is a verifiable method to demonstrate knowledge proficiency at a college level. It is an indicator that our homeschool program is rigorous, similar to AP courses in the traditional setting. If the school she ultimately decides to attend accepts the CLEP credits, great. If not, that's OK too (although I'll fight to get as many recognized as possible).

    I understand that the Analysis and Interpretation of Lit CLEP is probably the easiest CLEP available. That's why we started with that one first - as a confidence builder. Now she's excited about the idea and she's considering which CLEP/DANTES to do next.

    Shawn
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    There have been a number of interesting assumptions in this thread.

    One is that homeschooled kids have socialization issues, and that somehow being in a classroom setting provides some sort of unique socialization benefit to kids. To the extent that being around other kids their own age is important (which it probably is somewhat but is also easy to overrate) there are plenty of opportunities for that for homeschooled kids, such as sports teams, church activities, and other local programs. And let's face it, most high school classrooms just teach people to sit down, shut up, and get ready to be good little workers for other people.

    Another is that a fourteen year old who's been given a seven year plan is going to follow it, regardless of how much sense it makes. Ask my poor, long suffering mom what she thinks of that. ;)

    Anyway, I love the idea of high school kids taking CLEP tests. One of education's dirty little secrets is that what people study in high school overlaps a great deal with what they study as general education at university. My kids have already been put on alert that if they're going to university for four years, they may as well walk out with a Master's as a Bachelor's. (Of course, my kids aren't any more likely to obey my great plans than any other kids would be!)

    I totally agree about Analyzing Lit, by the way. My wife took it a few months ago and it apparently hasn't changed -- it's still a glorified literacy test.

    -=Steve=-
     
  10. mattbrent

    mattbrent Well-Known Member

    Homeschooling has changed quite a bit over the years. Back when I was in school (public school, that is), the home schoolers were taught solely by their parents. Now there are networks for homeschoolers. My wife's mom teaches creative writing and art to a group of homeschoolers. Many states have put into place "safeguards" for homeschoolers that require their "teachers" to follow certain curricula. In those homeschool networks, one parent might teach a certain subject, while another might teach something else. From this respect, there is socialization for the kids.

    Of course, being a homeschooled kid doesn't necessarily mean that child is a part of a homeschool network. I teach high school freshmen. Each year I've had one or two kids enter high school after having been homeschooled for their whole lives. I have only noticed a lack of social skills in one kid. He was extremely arrogant and thought he was better than the rest of the kids because of the fact that he had been homeschooled. I will say, however, that I have noticed that all of the former homeschoolers I have had performed better than their public school counterparts. This, I believe, is a result of standardization and what I believe to be the "dumbing down" of the US curriculum.

    In regards to earning credit for CLEP versus Dual Enrollment, what type of public schools are in your area? In Virginia, the Governor encourages high schools to provide Duel Enrollment classes to the students. I teach in a very rural school, with 450 kids of which 40% are on free and reduced lunch. We have had (classes may change each year) Duel Enrollment classes in US History, English, Physics, Government, Biology, Sociology, Psychology, Creative Writing, Precalculus and Computer Science. In the county were I live, the high school is much larger, about 1800 kids. They have even more duel enrollment classes. If you wanted your child to earn college credit, he or she could still do so in high school. It could be through Dual Enrollment, or even AP of IB classes.

    I entered college as a sophomore because of the credits I had earned in high school. I still took four years to finish my BA, however. I wanted to fully experience college for all it was worth. In fact, I'd give anything to go back! Although this is strictly my opinion, I wouldn't be in a rush to get your kid through school.
     
  11. BMWGuinness

    BMWGuinness New Member

    I live in Brevard County, FL (home of Kennedy Space Center)

    The high school he will be attending has the IB and the AOB program, both of which are very tough. I have calls to counselors at the high school and college level.

    I'm just not sure at this time if the CLEP would fulfill the College Level course, which would fulfill the High School level course, which would mean there would not be a need to take the course at all.

    Brevard Community College allows up to 45 credits from CLEP/DANTES and the Dual Enrollment program requires at least 15 credits completed through college.

    This has nothing to do with homeschooling. I'm just worried that CLEPing too much, too fast could be detrimental toward his general studies if the Exam fulfills the college and high school courses.

    Yes, it would be great for him to concentrate on IT, which is a passion of his, but I just don't want him to miss out on core learning.

    There is a difference between knowing the subject, and knowing how to pass the exam.

    However, if the general consensus is that taking advantage of the CLEP/DANTES exams would be beneficial, then I'm content.

    We went to the bookstore today, and I had him run through the first 10 A&IL questions, and he saild through them (even though he has not read any of the referenced stories in the exam).
     
  12. foobar

    foobar Member

    In my opinion, yes. Your nephew will likely graduate from high school early and already be younger than most entering freshmen. With the CLEP exams, he would likely start college as a sophomore.

    Freshman courses take into account that the student is adjusting to the college environment - As a professor, I tolerate some behavioral stuff in a freshman course that I would not put up with in an upper-level course. Your nephew would be adapting to the college classroom, learning college expectation and norms while sitting in classrooms with students that figured out how things work out the year before.

    I did have one student that did this successfully. The student graduated with a Master's in Accounting by the age of 21 and obtained a position with a Big-4 accounting firm. However, thoughout the student's acadmic career and first couple of years of employment, there were occasional social disconnects due to the age and maturity difference.

    My own daughter started college as a sophmore after passing all of the CLEP general exams and graduating from high school in three years. She avoided the problems I'm describing because she started college as a music major. Music majors take most of their freshman year course load in their major so she was around students closer to her age that like her, were figuring out college.
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Oh, I get it -- what happens if a kid tries to combine the two?

    That's an interesting one, and worth checking out. I wonder how bad it could possibly be, though.

    -=Steve=-
     
  14. BMWGuinness

    BMWGuinness New Member


    Right! There are quite a few different variables that are key with him in particular.

    First off, he is extremely good at the sports he enjoys. Right now he's playing tennis with 17 and 18 year olds, and he plans to pursue tennis in high school (which is not affected by dual enrollment). He is used to being the young man in the crowd, and he hangs out with me whenever he gets a chance (I'm 30).

    I've found that treating him like a true adult, and participating in the "younger" activities he enjoys (video/computer games) is a good balance between just being a kid, and being more mature for his age.

    Second, he is in Honors Geometry, and will be going into Algebra 2 in 9th grade. Unless I'm mistaken, I thought Algebra 2 was an 11th grade math class for the average student. I could be wrong here, but that's what was normal when I was in high school.

    He is in the top of his class in preparation for the IB program, but he came to me and said that between all of his homework (all advanced level classes) his Tennis and Track (2-3 hours per day of practice) and everything that has happened recently (REAL Bomb Threats at school, His Grandmother passing in December, and other things) he feels it would be better not to take so many advanced level courses, so he can concentrate better on the advanced level courses he enjoys (Math, Science, Technology).

    He is a gifted student, though not tested, and he shows all of the signs of ADD (I am ADHD) though he seems to have a better grasp on those issues than I did when I was growing up. I've talked to his mother, and we both agree speaking with a professional on this matter would present a better light on the situation.

    Working with him over the past 6 months, I've been presenting learning tools for him that worked brilliantly for me. Specifically Interactive CompTIA A+ labs and Rosetta Stone Spanish. He loves computers, so the interaction is great and fun for him. He was having a problem in Spanish, but when he explained to me it was the style of teaching that was impeding his learning, I threw him on RS. Since then he says each hour on RS is as much if not more than a week worth of study in school.

    As of now, we're going to take one step at a time. We're going to start with A&IL this summer (since he aced "cold" the first 10 questions thrown at him in the CLEP Study Guide). We'll also look at comparable exams to his current school schedule and also take any of those exams in the summer. He feels confident in the exam structure of A&IL, so that will be a starting point.

    Thanks Shawn for the input, and congratulations to your daughter on her success. I want to apologize for hijacking the thread, but at the time I was a little "under the influence (blew my keg)" and was speaking from the heart (still am).
     

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