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  1. #1
    JTNcarter is offline Registered User
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    Ed2go Instructor from diploma mill

    I thought it would be fun to take a photography course over the holidays since business is slow and my graduate classes are on break. So I was looking at what Snead State had to offer and found a great photography course but the instructor’s bio includes a PhD from Lacrosse University. I know this really is not a big deal since this is not a real “class” but I wanted to know if anyone thinks this should be reported or should I just let it go and take the class anyway?

    Link --> http://www.ed2go.com/cgi-bin/oic3/ne...h=1#instructor

  2. #2
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Yet another one with perfectly legitimate Bachelor's & Master's degrees who felt compelled to top it off with a pile of crap.

    Standing by and doing nothing encourages the same behavior in others. I would tell Ed2go I wasn't taking the course, and why I made that decision.
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    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

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  3. #3
    TCord1964 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTNcarter View Post
    I thought it would be fun to take a photography course over the holidays since business is slow and my graduate classes are on break. So I was looking at what Snead State had to offer and found a great photography course but the instructor’s bio includes a PhD from Lacrosse University. I know this really is not a big deal since this is not a real “class” but I wanted to know if anyone thinks this should be reported or should I just let it go and take the class anyway?

    Link --> http://www.ed2go.com/cgi-bin/oic3/ne...h=1#instructor
    While the "instructor" does have legitimately accredited degrees through the masters level, I wouldn't take a course instructed by somebody with a diploma mill doctorate just out of principle. Why lend credibility to somebody who purchased their degree from a mill? I would also write a letter informing Snead that while you are interested in the Ed2Go course, you can't in good conscience enroll in a course which is instructed by somebody with a bogus degree.
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  4. #4
    vanadoo is offline Registered User
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    This thread reminded me of a conversation I recently had with an adjunct recently. During our chat she mentioned her doctorate, which she explained was from a Metaphysical University.

    She said that she graduated with a Social Sciences Masters degree from a regionally accredited University (this M.A. is the qualification for the classes she teaches). After graduation, she pursued her strong personal interest in non-traditional spirituality and enrolled in a non-accredited religious university.

    She was required to write a thesis and was awarded a Doctorate in Ministerial Studies (or something like that). The program took her a few years to complete.

    She includes her Ph.D. title on her syllabus and students and administration know all about it. Intrigued, I asked specifically about administration knowing about it and she said nobody has a problem with it at the colleges she adjuncts for. She added that the only difference was that when she was asked "for transcripts they weren't interested in" those from her Doctoral school.

    Is it generally acceptable to use a non-accredited Ph.D. if it is from a religious institution rather than a state or private university?

  5. #5
    PhD2B is offline Dazed and Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanadoo View Post
    Is it generally acceptable to use a non-accredited Ph.D. if it is from a religious institution rather than a state or private university?
    I think the proper comparison is non-accredited versus accredited. IMO, it does not matter if the degree is in a religious field or not or whether the degree is from a state or private institution; legitimate accreditation is all that counts.

    Your example is another one where a person topped off a perfectly legitimate degree with a heaping pile of crap. And, keep in mind, no matter how hard you try to polish a pile of crap, it will always be crap. :D
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  6. #6
    macattack is offline Registered User
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    Funny you posted this. I looked at this same course about a week ago and when I noticed her Lacrosse doctorate I decided to look elsewhere. Sure it is unrelated to the photography course she is teaching , but I don't want to pay tuition to support her.

    Check out BetterPhoto.com for a number of courses.

    Also I love this forum: Canon Digital Photography Forums. Obviously mostly Cannon users, but there are always hundreds of users on at any given time and everything you ever want to know about photography can be found there.

  7. #7
    cklapka is offline Registered User
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    You may wish to try NYIP, a relative of mine is going through their program. They seems pretty comprehensive to me. If I were going to get into photography , I would use them.
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  9. #8
    scotty is offline Registered User
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    Without a doubt, she needs to be reported. Aren't diploma mills the arch-enemies of the legitimate distance degree community? Doesn't her action in this situation make all of us look bad? Doesn't it fuel the argument against distance learning? Isn't there an implied responsibility on each of us here to actively rebuke this kind of behavior and ferret it out whenever possible? We should be flooding that school with complaints. I know I will write to them.

  10. #9
    vanadoo is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTNcarter View Post
    I thought it would be fun to take a photography course over the holidays since business is slow and my graduate classes are on break. So I was looking at what Snead State had to offer and found a great photography course but the instructor’s bio includes a PhD from Lacrosse University. I know this really is not a big deal since this is not a real “class” but I wanted to know if anyone thinks this should be reported or should I just let it go and take the class anyway?

    Link --> http://www.ed2go.com/cgi-bin/oic3/ne...h=1#instructor
    UPDATE: It looks like the school name has been deleted from her profile (but not the title).

  11. #10
    RFValve is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanadoo View Post
    UPDATE: It looks like the school name has been deleted from her profile (but not the title).
    She is still a Dr but the name of the school is gone. She probably deleted it after getting an email about it. It is not a big deal since these courses are not for credit but it shows lack of professionalism for sure. I think that with so many Drs many instructors feel compelled to get a mill doctorate since many schools won't bother to check it. Many adjunct positions hire you based on your resume and do not check credentials, the feeling that the Dr title will get you more business is there and to be honest to teach subjects like photography or web design , the Dr title is not really needed. I have seen few adjuncts that make a living with a mill doctorate and nobody has bothered with this. The issue is that nowadays, schools publish credentials on the net so it is becoming more evident the use of bogus credentials.

  12. #11
    TCord1964 is offline Registered User
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    The ethical thing for her to do would be to also remove the title "Dr." from her profile.
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  13. #12
    eric.brown is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by cklapka View Post
    You may wish to try NYIP, a relative of mine is going through their program. They seems pretty comprehensive to me. If I were going to get into photography, I would use them.
    Do you have any info on costs, etc for NYIP?
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  14. #13
    Anthony Pina is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanadoo View Post
    She includes her Ph.D. title on her syllabus and students and administration know all about it. Intrigued, I asked specifically about administration knowing about it and she said nobody has a problem with it at the colleges she adjuncts for. She added that the only difference was that when she was asked "for transcripts they weren't interested in" those from her Doctoral school.

    Is it generally acceptable to use a non-accredited Ph.D. if it is from a religious institution rather than a state or private university?
    Although people at some schools may not care (or may not be careful), it is not generally acceptable to use a non-accredited Ph.D., regardless of whether it was obtained from a religious institution. Loma Linda University, Brigham Young University, Concordia University and Loyola University are examples of three of the many legitimate and accredited institutions affiliated with religious organizations.

    That said, I have known several adjunct faculty (particularly at the community college level) who were hired based on their accredited masters degrees and who also had unaccredited doctorates, but they were always paid at the masters (not doctoral) level and were not referred to as "Dr.", nor were they allowed to list the degree on any college materials, inlcuding the website.
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  15. #14
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    It's one thing to let somebody who has a bogus Ph.D teach (on the basis of their masters and bachelors degrees).

    It's quite another to let them use the same title conferred on people with a legitimate, accredited doctorate.

    I'm quite certain that if other faculty members were made aware that this "Dr" had a phony degree that people would be up in arms. Some years ago, Steve Levicoff "outed" a professor at some southern school who did exactly the same thing. He first emailed her and gave her a chance to remove the title and the fake degree; she made the mistake of emailing him back and saying something like "Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can or can't do." This, of course, was all the encouragement Steve needed to email everyone at the school to let them know this person had a fake degree.

    She ended up resigning and moving to another state.

    Honestly, I have little pity for people who knowingly use fake credentials to buy themselves credibility. And this person knows there is a problem, otherwise she would not have removed the name of the school from her profile.

    Perhaps another Steve procedure is necessary here :)

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  17. #15
    JazzyMac is offline Registered User
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    I had to check out the Lacrosse website because of the negativity about non-accreditation. http://www.lacrosseuniversity.com/doc1/busadmin.html

    Looking at that link, they offer classes for that degree. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, but if the school hired her...(??) Just because her degree is non-accredited, doesn't mean she's a bad person or lacking morals.

    I personally think the only people who definitely lack morals are those who actually *lie* about their credentials. Like those who purchase "novelty" certificates, or those who say they have an accredited degree versus non.

    Of course, employers, students, etc. can choose to not work with that person based on their leisure, principles, etc. But it doesn't make the person non-ethical or without morals.

  18. #16
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzyMac View Post
    I had to check out the Lacrosse website because of the negativity about non-accreditation. http://www.lacrosseuniversity.com/doc1/busadmin.html

    Looking at that link, they offer classes for that degree. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, but if the school hired her...(??) Just because her degree is non-accredited, doesn't mean she's a bad person or lacking morals.
    Lacrosse has been extensively investigated, and pretty much everyone here would agree it's a degree mill. That's different than a diploma mill, which simply mails you the diploma after payment is received; a degree mill may require a token effort, but it's still a joke.

    Lacrosse has also consistently claimed accreditation from non-recognized accreditors (which makes it worthless), first the WAUC and now an entity I wouldn't be surprised is also owned by Lacrosse.

    If you claim to have a doctorate, you're putting yourself forward as an expert in your field. That's a serious thing, so the process which conferred your degrees must be impartial and peer-reviewed if it's to be taken seriously. Lacrosse is none of the above.
    --
    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

    NA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/20/08

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