Need Advice On Graduate School Plans

I’m looking for some assistance in helping me decide what graduate program to enter. I’m a military officer (O-3E), but spent most of my career enlisted and as a warrant officer, so I already have 22 years service. I recently finished my BSLS from Excelsior with focus areas in Management and Asian Studies. I’m looking for a graduate degree that would help me promote to O-4 should I decide to remain on active duty or help me compete for a decent job, maybe a government civilian job, after I retire. My last few years will most likely be spent as an Executive Officer, Personnel Officer, Admin Officer, or Budget Officer. Because of this, I’m primarily looking at graduate business administration, HR, or management programs. Also, to make my decision more difficult, I work so many hours that I could not be successful taking more than one class at a time. Because of this, programs that offer at least 4 terms per year would be nice, so I could finish within 3 years or less. I would also like to avoid programs with comprehensive exams. Taking one class at a time, I would most likely not retain much from the earlier courses. I would prefer to limit group work. A little is fine, but I’d rather not do a program that’s heavy on group projects. Finally, I am paying for my wife and son to go to college now, so I’d prefer programs that keep costs near military Tuition Assistance limits ($250/sem credit). I’m willing to go over this if there’s a good reason. Here are some of the programs on my list and some comments I made. I would really appreciate any advice or knowledge of these programs:

Liberty University MBA
http://www.luonline.com/index.cfm?PID=14407
Pros: I’m certainly not against 100% distance programs, but I do feel a B&M presence is a plus. I took 30 undergrad credits with Liberty and found them very efficient. I like the 8 week terms. The program also doesn’t appear to require advanced math (which I don’t have). Graduate military tuition rate is only $250/SH.
Cons: Looks like there might be a LOT of group work. That could be tough with my schedule. The MBA also requires 15 classes.

Liberty University MS in Management http://www.luonline.com/index.cfm?PID=14413
Pros: Only 10 classes for the MSM @ $250.00 per credit. I could finish in 18 months.
Cons: Still has a lot of group work (or so it appears from the description). Also, it’s not an MBA, and I keep hearing that for someone like me, an MBA would open more post-military doors. I don’t know if this is true or not.

Touro University International MBA http://www.tourou.edu/cba/mba.htm
Pros: They’re military-friendly. Tuition Assistance would cover ALL expenses since they don’t use traditional text books. It doesn’t sound like there is a lot of group work. I know people who completed the program who said there isn’t a lot of advanced math involved.
Cons: Not sure what their status is after the recent sale. I’d hate to get halfway through only to see them lose accreditation or something. They also appear to have limited room for electives. Not as many terms per year as Liberty.

NorthCentral University MBA http://www.ncu.edu/info.asp?i=26
Pros: Tuition is $250 per hour. The MBA programs leave a lot of room for electives. They have some neat specializations, like Homeland Security. I like the choices in elective courses. Monthly start dates is great. I don’t see any group work being required. They are ACBSP (not that it probably matters for me, but it can’t hurt).
Cons: No brick & mortar campus. They don’t appear to be well-known. I asked around, and nobody had heard of them (even those who knew Touro). Not sure if them being a For Profit is an issue. I took 21 credits at American Military University, another For Profit school with no B&M classes, and loved it.

Amberton University http://www.amberton.edu/eDegrees.htm (undecided on which program)
Pros: Price is right at $225 per credit. Good reputation among those who have heard of the school. B&M campus.
Cons: Limited courses to choose from in the distance programs. With only 4 terms per year, I would need to do one of the 36 credit MS programs rather than an MBA or it would take too long to finish for me.

University of North Alabama MBA http://www2.una.edu/business/mba/index.html#Online_MBA_Program
Pros: Brick & Mortar school located in Alabama, which is where I might end up after the military since my parents live in Mobile. They appear to offer 8 week terms.
Cons: I might have to take as many as 15 courses since I don’t have an undergrad business degree (I do have a lot of management courses and some accounting courses, so I wouldn't need the full 17 courses). Tuition is slightly higher at $320, so I’d pay $210 out of pocket per course. I heard some of the courses are heavy into math. I would have trouble with that. I'm fine with algebra, but that's about it. I'm not really interested in learning more math just to get through an MBA program.

Saint Joseph’s College of Maine MBA http://www.sjcme.edu/masterbusadmin/whymba.html?l1=1&l2=0&l3=0&l4=0
Pros: Brick & Mortar campus, frequent start dates, don’t need advanced math.
Cons: I love leadership classes, but an entire MBA based on leadership might be overkill. They give a nice military discount, but I think it’s still $300 per hour, so I’d have to pay $150 per course plus books. I read their courses require a lot of books. Also, it’s 14 courses, so it would take me a little longer. If I wanted to do a leadership degree, there might be other options.

Liberty MA in Human Services http://www.luonline.com/index.cfm?PID=14389
Pros: Looks like a 30 credit MA that could be applied to the office. I have more interest in these types of classes than I do actual business classes. The MA has an executive leadership concentration. I would finish it in 18 months even taking one class at a time.
Cons: It’s not a business degree. Although it would probably help me with promotion within the military (pretty much any graduate studies help), I don’t know if this degree would be useful at all in finding a job after I retired.

Well, I realize this post is long. I looked at many other schools and pretty much ruled them out. Some required a major thesis, which I’m not interested in doing. Some were too big into math for me to succeed. Some required comprehensive exams. Some were just too expensive for now. Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice you might have. I appreciate it.

TJ

 

I would look at California State University - Domingues Hills. Their MBA is $400 per hour, but only requires 30-33 credits. However, they are nearing completion of AACSB candidacy and may very will complete this before you would graduate (nothing is guaranteed though). So for around $1500 out of your pocket you would have a California State University MBA, assuming you meet the pre-reqs.

You could take 1 course at a time and they have 4 terms per year. Any more terms than that you may find you don't have enough time to complete the compressed (6 or 8-week courses) based on your schedule.

The other nice thing about CSUDH is they have many specializations, which is unusual for a 30-33 credit program. Some specializations would end up near the 18 credits necessary to teach if you think that may be in you future for some reason.

 

You might also consider Duquesne University School of Leadership and Professional Advancement. The school offers at least 3 online MS degrees which may interest you. Tuition runs about $910 per course for active duty, reserve/NG, vets and retirees. DU is very military friendly. Some of the classes are taught by the Duquesne's AACSB-accredited B-school. No GRE or GMAT required.

I've already completed one course through Duquesne SLPA. The quality of presentation and instruction for that class was, in my opinion, exceptional. Semesters at SLPA are 8 weeks in length. In essence, you have a long break between semesters, which may fit well with family life and duty obligations.

A more descriptive report regarding my DU experience is available here.

 

Sir, you motivate me to become a Commissioned Officer. That is a long way to become an O-3. All the school you listed, I would choose Liberty University. Touro University International is known by most of the Military members because all their advertisements are in the Military newspapers. Northcentral University is sometimes confusing with North Central University. The Aberton University is not well know because some people I ask around Dallas area; and they don't really know the institution existed. If you're looking for a Master of Science in Management; you should choose a different school.

What's about Florida Insitute of Technology's Master of Science in Management? The program requires 11 courses, 33 credits; FIT is top third tier school accross the nation. Most of the alumni are the Military's Generals. So, I believe it has a good impact in the Military.

 

Lets see...MSM + 22 yrs. military...

Hey Sir,

I can't see where the MSM would weigh any less than an MBA, especially with your military background. In fact, depending on what you want to do, I would argue that the MSM would be more advantageous than an MBA.

Although MBA's have concentrations, the MBA is more of a generalist degree in business administration. However, the MSM is primarily devoted to management, although other business courses are included as well.

I'm trying to envision how a MSM along with your military experience would place you at a disadvantage, esp. for a government civilian job, and I just can't.

You have obviously done a great deal of work on this, and obviously the choice is yours. Best of luck in your choice.

 

TXJames,

Sir, if you're looking for a job in GS positions; why don't you choose Master of Public Administration? I am very much in the same boat with you, but I have along way to retire. Also, Uinversity of Alabama has the MBA in General as well as Master of Science in Management/Operations Management. Their tuition is relatively cheap...around $200 something per credit. They do require GMAT score for admission.

 

Thanks

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I updated my e-mail address soon after my original post then ended up locked out of the forum. After that, I was deployed for a while. Thanks to Bruce for unlocking my account yesterday.

MACATTACK, FLA Expat, TEKMAN, and Capella Rocks, thanks for the advice. I still haven't made a final decision, but I'm probably going to look into the MS or MPA rather than an MBA. I'm also toying with the idea of an adult education or training graduate program. I found a lot of GS Educational Services positions that interest me. Most require 24 hours of training and education courses in some specific areas.

Anyway, thanks again.

TJ

 

Not really. The distance between O-1 and O-3 is typically 4 years, with both promotions pretty automatic. The real trick is getting into a commissioning program in the first place, then graduating from it.

As for degree programs, select the best one that meets your requirements regarding content and study methodology. There are plenty of funding sources, so cost shouldn't be the deciding factor. (If you have to invest more to get the degree you want, then you have to invest it. If you don't want to do that, then you don't want that degree from that school; change your selection.)

While everyone has their own calculus for selecting a degree program, I place the most emphasis on the school, content, and learning method. Things like cost can be overcome, and I'd rather get the degree I want rather than the one that let me transfer the most credits or was the easiest to get into.

 

Check out LeTourneau University: LeTourneau Online MBA

 

txjames, I made a mistake on the Duquesne program.

Currently: 13-week semesters during fall and spring, 8-weeks summer.

Proposed: Five 8-week semesters per year. Students may take 2 courses per semester. In theory, one can complete 30 grad semester hours in 10.5 months under the proposed plan. A survey alluding to as much was sent out to DU SLPA graduate students just before Christmas.

Where the confusion came in: I took one course through Duquesne and one through University of Dallas last summer. Then, I said to heck with it, and attended Tarleton State for Fall '07 semester. Now, I'm back with Duquesne and UD.

Why I should have heeded Bruce's prudent advice about full course loads: Because I'm taking two courses through DU and one through UD this semester, free time is now measured in seconds rather than hours. It's just after midnight, and, after working at a fast pace for the previous 4 hours, I'm finally finished with coursework for the day.

 

If it's any consolation, my wife doesn't listen to me either.

 

Txjames:

You might consider Salve Regina University for an MSM. There are no prerequisites for the MS, and for the MBA you'd need statistics or calculus and accounting.

The tuition is $365 per credit. You need 36 credits to graduate. There is no group work at all. You can and must take quite a few self paced classes which allow you up to 4 months to complete with an extension possible for a fee. There are no tests, everything is papers or exercises (for finance anyway). The interactive courses are 8 weeks in duration. The interaction isn't all that intense though depends on the class (finance had zero interaction). The profs are pretty nice, some are quite hands on, others nothing more than "good job."

There are quite a few military in the interactive classes I've had, in my ethics course I think 1/3 of them are navy. Also, some ex-military and cops.

There is also an international relations MS you can take and I think it would be quite possible to do a double MS based on common courses everyone must take.

http://www.salve.edu/programs_Esalve/GES_index.htm

 

Florida Tech

I did my graduate degree when I was an active duty O-3 from the Florida Institute of Technology. The degree was very helpful for me in getting hired for my current position.

The link below shows the graduate degrees FIT offers online.

http://uc.fit.edu/dl/academics/degrees/index.html

 

I should also mention that while Salve Regina asks for the GMAT or GRE, if you take two classes with a B average they waive the test requirements.

You can take three classes on a non matriculated basis. Also, as an intermediate step, you can take a 12-15 credit graduate certificate in business administration or management.

 

Sounds like good advice. I haven't written off any programs just because of cost yet. If I find a program that just seems right, I will consider paying out of pocket. FYI, I was never an O-1 or O-2. I was enlisted from E-1 to E-7 and was commissioned as a CWO2 with 13 years in. I served as a CWO3 and CWO4 before receiving a temporary appointment to O-3E (with saved pay...no pay decrease). I'm up for O-4 next year, so this will be the first board where I'm competing against the more traditional Academy and OCS officers. If I make O-4, I will be integrated into the regular officer corps. If I don't, I can choose to revert to CWO4.

 

Salve does look interesting. I like the international relations courses (I have 30 Asian studies credits). I like the combination of self-paced and 8 week courses. Thanks.

 

I checked out Duquesne. The MLLS program looks pretty interesting. I know someone who took one graduate leadership course with them, but had to drop it half-way through due to a serious illness. He said the instructor was a retired Marine colonel who also taught at one of the war colleges. He said it was a top-notch class. The 8 week terms would be much better for me. Thanks.

 

Well that's a facinating story you've got there! I've read all kinds of stories about promotional tracks, but that one definately takes the cake! (BTW, congradulations on your promotional achievements ). I've read of similar unique promotional stories during WWII, but never in the 21st Century!

 

Yes, that instructor would probably be Professor Cunningham. He's awesome! I think he worked harder than the class. His responses came within hours, no matter his location. During one week, he was over at NATO HQ in Belgium instructing, and he still interacted with us quite often. Just amazing.

According to the survey, 8-week classes may commence in August '08.