NCAA denies former Penn Foster Student Academic Eligibility

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TCord1964, Aug 28, 2007.

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  1. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    A college football player enrolled at Ole Miss is unable to practice or play until Fall 2008 due to concern by NCAA officials that he completed his Penn Foster High School courses "in an unusually limited amount of time".

    NCAA Denies Former Penn Foster Student Academic Eligibility To Play This Season
     
  2. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    I don’t think this is an issue of distance learning, but rather one of academic integrity. Apparently this individual has had trouble with his academics and has failed to qualify for enrollment since 2005. Let’s be honest, it's not difficult to cheat at DETC schools. I suspect the NCAA has solid evidence he received inappropriate assistance in his studies at Penn Foster. If not, this will be easily overturned in court.

    Regardless of the merits of this case, the NCAA needed to do something about the blatant disregard for academics in college athletics. The schools seem to be perfectly happy running their minor league professional teams with 20% graduation rates.
     
  3. BryanOats

    BryanOats New Member

    Just to be clear, the Penn Foster High School program is both RA and NA. Specifically, the program has accreditation from the Middle States Association as well as from the DETC.

    Source: http://www.pennfoster.edu/diploma/certification.html
     
  4. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Jerrell Powe was not accused of cheating. He was accused of not having sufficient high school credit to enter a college program. So he enrolled in Penn Foster High School...a self-paced program...to complete his credit. The NCAA then disallowed much of that credit, saying he had completed it too quickly "compared to similar high school courses" at other schools. It seems to me the NCAA misses the point of what a "self-paced" distance learning program is all about. If the allegation is cheating, then why not make the allegation...unless, of course, they don't have any evidence of cheating.

    By the way, Penn Foster's High School program is REGIONALLY accredited.
     
  5. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    ...right in the kisser

    From what I read, the main problem seems to have been with Brigham Young, not Penn Foster. I can't find the exact number, but he apparently completed quite a few correspondence courses from BYU in a very short time with very high grades.
     
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    That interesting Dr. Bear. I love it when people make glaring unsubstantiated claims, such as this:


    Vincey:

    "Let’s be honest, it's not difficult to cheat at DETC schools. I suspect the NCAA has solid evidence he received inappropriate assistance in his studies at Penn Foster."


    Abner
     
  7. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Jerrell Powe did take some of his courses through BYU, although the media reports seem to center more on his studies at Penn Foster High School. In fact, even Powe's attorney indicated he had submitted some 2,000 pages of documents concerning his study at Penn Foster alone.

    Then there is this quote from Powe's attorney, which appeared in the "Commercial Appeal" newspaper:

    "At the core level," Jackson said, "the NCAA's actions in this case and in all of these 'diploma mill' cases demonstrate an institutional belief that African-American prospective student-athletes are incapable of improving themselves academically. That's what this is all about. And at the very core, that's racist as hell, because inherent in that is the belief that these young men who are struggling academically cannot improve themselves. And there is a belief that if you did improve, you either cheated or cut corners to get there."

    WTF? Now there's an insinuation that Penn Foster (or BYU???) is a diploma mill?

    I can't help but feel some of the folks at the NCAA are clueless about DL programs.
     
  8. Mundo

    Mundo New Member

    Well, it appears that Vincey37 is using hasty generalizations, which according to my DETC Business Communication class, indicates faulty logic.

    Source:

    Bovee, C., Thill, J., Schatzman, B. (2003). Business CommunicationToday
    Upper Saddle, NJ: Prentice Hall - page 274

    Pepe
     
  9. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Interestingly, the long article on this matter in today's Chronicle of Higher Education mentions only Brigham Young, not a word about Penn Foster.

    Here's part of it:

    "After failing to get his high-school diploma, [Powe] enrolled at the Hargrave Military Academy, where he continued to struggle academically. According to various news reports, Mr. Powe has a learning disability that makes it difficult for him to read.

    But in one three-month span last year, he aced a questionable number of correspondence classes from Brigham Young University, miraculously improving his transcript. The NCAA frowned on the turnaround, invalidating a portion of his academic record and denying him a chance to practice or play with the team this fall."

    The full article is at
    http://chronicle.com/daily/2007/08/2007082905n.htm
    but I believe one has to be a subscriber to read it.

    Also of relevance: the Salt Lake City Deseret News reported this on May 8, 2007:

    BYU sends proctor for athlete's final
    Deseret News (Salt Lake City), May 8, 2007

    Brigham Young University sent a proctor to watch an athlete in Mississippi take a final exam in an effort to save the reputation of the school's online learning program. The move comes after allegations surfaced that student athletes throughout the country were abusing BYU's online program to gain eligibility to play college sports. For the past five years, according to two NCAA investigations and federal criminal indictments in Kansas, the online program has been used by coaches and athletes as an easy way to improperly gain or maintain athletic eligibility at other schools. Recently, BYU paid to fly a test proctor to Mississippi to watch Jerrell Powe take an online algebra test. Powe, a star defensive lineman at Wayne County High School, is one of the athletes being questioned over online courses he took through the Provo school. "It's a rare but regular procedure," BYU spokesman Michael Smart said, adding that a proctor flies to testing sites about three times a year. "But this is the first time we've done it for an athlete."

    Another thing: Powe's attorney is vigorously playing the race card. This would never have happened if he was white, etc. etc. etc. (That's what I've always thought about Lance Armstrong.)

    Finally: Several articles mention that Powe learned to read in 2005. If so, one has to wonder how he ever passed anything, from first grade on.
     
  10. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Nothing new here folks. Take a look at this article from 2005.
     
  11. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    I had assumed anyone who attended a DETC school would know my statement to be true. I guess some of you are in denial and I'll have to spell it out.

    I took several college courses at Penn Foster. I can only assume Penn Foster's policies to ensure academic integrity are at least as rigorous at the college level as at the high school level. While I enjoyed the classes, I could easily have had another individual do all my work without Penn Foster being any wiser. To be clear, there was NO verification the actual student was performing the work.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2007
  12. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    I suspect the NCAA is cautious of publically accusing a student of cheating without conclusive evidence. That does not mean they do not have substantial evidence. Otherwise, this action is clearly baseless and I do not think they are so stupid.
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I've taken online courses at regionally accredited schools where that's true as well, so I'm unsure why you're specifically hammering DETC. It's not even a problem specific to distance learning, as even in a large enough brick and mortar class, one can have someone else show up to take the exam in his/her place.

    -=Steve=-
     
  14. Mundo

    Mundo New Member


    Not sure I’m understanding your post. My wife is a degree seeking student at Penn Foster College and recently took the finals for semester one. Her proctor (a local librarian) verified her identity and supervised the entire five hour exam.

    As for a school not being able to verify who does the academic work, I guess it is possible to have another person do the reading, and do the homework and the projects for you while all you do is to show up for class. In the DL environment the same scenario is also possible but you still would have to deal with the supervised proctor exams.

    Vincey, in the framework of logical thinking you are assuming a false cause -- faulty cause-and-effect reasoning. Do not assume that one event caused another just because it happened first.

    Pepe
     
  15. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    Penn Foster has proctored final exams for degree students. People taking individual courses are not supervised.

    Indeed, some RA schools have this issue as well. But the problem is not as pervasive as in DETC institutions.

    Every post in this thread is speculative. Otherwise there would be nothing to discuss.
     
  16. Mundo

    Mundo New Member


    For this statement to be accurate, you would have had to experience several (many) DETC schools. Therefore, if that was not the case, then, your logic is flawed.

    Pepe
     
  17. macattack

    macattack New Member

    I did not know that happened. I guess my residential courses were different than huge state schools. My instructors would certainly know that I am missing and that a stranger took my exam.

    I have to partially agree with Vincey on this one. DL has to take even greater security measures to help avoid stories like this one. We will hear about this again and again as long as there is a "new playground for misbehavior" (stolen from my link to the 2005 story above).

    In summary, it is not a RA/NA issue, it is a non-proctored exam issue.
     
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    You've got that right! :cool: :rolleyes:
     
  19. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    I contacted every DETC school which offered bachelors degrees in Business and asked them about their testing policies during the process of choosing a program for myself.
     
  20. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    I find this hard to believe, and no I'm not in denial. The proctor for your final exams is required to check a student's ID to ensure they are the person who is supposed to be taking the exams.

    Not everyone has an ax to grind with DETC schools. I don't think this is a DETC/RA issue. It appears a lot of Jerrell Powe's BYU coursework was disallowed, based upon the info supplied by Dr. Bear, so what happens to your argument? I believe this is a distance learning issue. It's sad to see that an organization like the NCAA is still so mistrusting of DL programs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2007

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