Touro professor "very upset" with John Bear

John Bear: I received this today:

===================================
Dear Dr. Bear,

I wanted to write you to let you know that I am personally very upset at the comment you made on the degreeinfo site. When you say that:
“Wonder if that includes Touro University International, for which Touro College is the parent school?”

It is our feeling that this borders on the defamatory. TUI is a separately accredited institution with a separate registration system. Therefore, Touro University International has no involvement whatsoever with any of the alleged activities.

We knew nothing about this activity and we take great umbrage at the insinuation that we were. I hope you will take steps to correct this speculative uncharitable comment. We have great respect for you and the work you are doing; in particular, the way you help the military identify degree mills is most impressive. However, we are very disappointed to see a seemingly defamatory statement come from someone of your distinguished background.

Sincerely,

Dr. Gold

Steven J. Gold, Ph.D.
Associate Dean for Special Projects
Professor of Business Administration and Health Sciences
Touro University International
===========================================

I responded thus:

Dear Dr. Gold

Can you please clarify if you are writing officially on behalf of Touro University International? When you say, "It is our feeling..." and "We take great umbrage," and "we are very disappointed..." it seems that you are, and yet an email from an Associate Dean seems an unusual way for a university to respond in such a situation.

Since Touro University International in California is a branch campus of Touro College in New York, it seemed not unreasonable to me to speculate whether something happening on the home campus might also affect the branch campus. You have assured me that it does not, and I gladly accept that and withdraw my 'speculative uncharitable comment.'

You point out that TUI has separate accreditation from WASC. Of course it does, although, just as a matter of record, it was awarded two years after the scandal allegedly began at Touro in NY.

Thank you for your kind comments about my work.

Yours sincerely,

Dr. Bear

Copy to: Professor Yoram Neumann, Ph.D., President, TUI

 

I read the article you had posted, and it said that Touro reported these people to the authorities. This could possibly be happening on a lot of campuses. John I didnt see any inflammatory statements made by you. I believe your statement was taken out of context. I'm currently a Touro University International student enrolled in the MSPHS program.

 

I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Bear. However, I am disappointed to see him post these e-mails and engage in this pissing match.

 

Y'know, if I responded every time something irritated me, even things as minor as being called "Mr. Bear" in this forum by anonymous posters, I'd be spending half my time in a concours pissant. But once or twice a year is quite enough to keep the juices flowing, as it were.

Call me "John" or call me
"Dr. Bear," just don't call
me late for dinner

 

By the way, reposting a private email message into a public forum without permission used to be off limits for reasons of copyright and civilized discourse. I assume that permission was sought and obtained...

Dave

 

Dave Wagner, how can a personal email that is sent to someone be copyrighted? If its copyrighted, then it's not a personal email. BTW Dave Wagner, have you found much value in your unaccredited doctorate?

 

They might be a little sensitive since Touro College is still trying to sell Touro University-International and the bad publicity doesn't help.

Chronicle of Higher Education:

From the issue dated July 13, 2007

http://chronicle.com/weekly/v53/i45/45a02401.htm

 

There are several comments that I'd like to make.
1) Anyone who knows of the relationship between the two schools had the same question in their mind. Dr. Bear didn't say anything that others weren't thinking. I'd be willing to bet that there were even people at TUI who asked this question. If they didn't then they weren't doing their jobs properly.
2) "Wondering" whether something is true or not is not the same as insinuating. Prof. Gold is off the mark here. Asking a question does not necessarily imply the answer.
3) I'd be willing to bet a large portion of my meager salary that Dr. Gold is not authorized, either explicitly or implicitly, to be out playing PR cowboys and indians. In any large organization there are people designated as official spokespersons, especially during any sort of crisis (this is a pr crisis). The nature and tone of Dr. Gold's response is not in line with what might be expected from such a spokesperson. However, he does clearly indicate that he is speaking for the organization as a whole. This throws the whole communication into the public domain. Dr. Gold is either
a) a really bad pr guy or
b) he has overstepped the bounds of his position

 

Email messages, handwritten notes, books, computer programs and webpages are all creative works and they are all protected by copyright. In this case however, Touro University is the owner of the copyright, since Dr. Gold is Touro's employee.

By the way, I'm still trying to figure out if the bickering over NCU is annoying or entertaining. Maybe you guys should create your own threads in the "off-topic" section and duke it out.

 

Is Touro a degree mill?

 

Surely you jest.

 

I don't agree with this at all. First, I'd like to know the basis of the copyright. Second, fair use would certainly overcome a copyright in this case. Finally, don't write something to someone unless you want others to see it. (Perhaps if Dr. Gold had asked for confidentiality...) Finally, there is nothing in the e-mail from Gold that can't or shouldn't be repeated in a public forum. His privacy, despite the reprint, was not violated.

 

A comment like that without a simple search could cause a lot of backlash. Is Breyer State a degree mill? Touro is regionally accredited

 

Or "Dear Johnny Bear"?

 

I have a different view... Any time you re-purpose content verbatim to another, public electronic medium, ostensibly for personal gain and without permission, you run the risk of copyright violation. For example, even if you put a DVD movie or a CD book up on the web to share it with your friends, you've re-purposed content to another, public medium. At the very least, broadcasting private email messages is a breach of netiquette, assuming that permission was not granted or not at least implied. Generally, email from one scholar to another would be assumed to be private correspondence.

If we don't hold our thought leaders accountable, what shall we do with the non-thought, non-leaders who shill for for-profit schools while pretending to be students?

Dave

P.S. I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

 

Dr. Bear:

I like the way you put that statement in the response. Such as something likes Troy University (formerly Troy State University) even though some campuses were accredited separated, but was still considered under one system.

If the quote above is true, then whoever graduated from TUI before WASC was an unaccredited degree.

 

If the best reason you can come up with for not sharing an e-mail is to rely on netiquette, I dare say ..NOT . And why bother chiming in on this e-mail other than to provoke others to post replies to your antics? Perhaps the term troll rings familiar?

But I digress...anyone can post an e-mail message sent to them. Unless you specifically ask for it not to be shared, you have no expectation of privacy, afaic.



BM

 

I am sometimes startled by the law as I am not educated in that realm. Still, I have to agree with bluemason and I would ask macattack to cite a particular statute (since you seem to be so certain in your opinion).

 

breach of netiquette...sounds serious - perhaps I smell a lawsuit