Disconnect in Online Learning(Los Angeles Times 10/22)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by samc79, Oct 22, 2001.

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  1. samc79

    samc79 New Member

  2. Just a few thoughts concerning the article from up North.

    He is a bit harsh and he paints all the programs with the same brush. I think the people who pay in excess of $73,000 for the Duke University Fuqua School of Management on-line MBA program would take exception to his comments.

    As far as the face to face interaction of the "cavernous lecture halls" goes... I was a victum of that interaction back in the 60's. Having a Ph.D come on stage and brow beat us as a bunch of dummies and then explain how greatful we should be to sit as his feet while he dispenses wisdom always left a sour taste in my mouth. In addition to this type of Freshman treatment, I was never well pleased with the Graduate Student TA's who came in to turn on the TV for the lectures and then never answered any questions. These people were the rule not the exception in my Freshman and Sophomore years at Ohio State University main campus. I never regretted not retuning to OSU after I did my military obligation. I am sure I am not alone in having rather bad experiences at the local Ivory Towers of Learning.

    So Mr. Noble can hold his view point of the "digital diploma mills" running mere correspondance course models of the 19th Century, and I will hold my view point that there can be some good to be garnered from all forms of education.

    Regards,

    Dick

    [2Dlearning[/URL]

    any thoughts?

    [/B][/QUOTE]
     
  3. JMcAulay

    JMcAulay New Member

    Sure, as soon as I finish yawning.

    This view is nothing new. For that matter, newspaper articles from writers who select interviewees who support their preconceived notions are not new, either. Furthermore, neither is an isolated paragraph quoted with no attribution (couldn't resist that one).

    It's a real shame that so many people are stuck in the head with the idea that it's impossible to learn except for the way they personally do it best. Even the US Supreme Court has been tainted by this opinion. We learn more all the time that this concept is garbage.

    And as far as WGU is concerned, it would take a volume to describe why it didn't blossom as some expected. A paragraph in a newspaper article is as inadequate for that topic as taking a couple of sentences to fully expound on the use of nuclear weapons in WWII.

    Feel free to suspect that Professor Noble has other individual ideas that conform only to his own standards. I've met professors who dislike: Textbooks, Classrooms, Multimedia presentations, Interactive learning, Non-resident schools, Resident schools, integrated curricula, non-integrated curricula, whatever you might want to bash. Even Students. Such Professors are not at all hard to find.

    Given a week, I could write an article opposing just about anything in education. So could almost any other writer-to-order.

    Excuse me, I have to go get a grain of salt. Large.

    Regards,
    John
     
  4. Tracy Gies

    Tracy Gies New Member

    These articles that hold up the relationship between the professor and the student as the key to a good education always make me wonder if that's really all that a traditional education can offer in added value over distance learning. If it is, than traditional classroom instruction must often be pathetically inadequate when compared to well-executed non-traditional instruction--which is really, in my opinion, the traditional model for learning. After all, is learning really taking place for the student when he or she asks the instructor a question and gets an answer? If that's all there is to it, than just what exactly is wrong with e-mail? In fact, I think e-mail can actually facilitate communications between the student and the instructor in any setting. Furthermore, does anyone, Mr. Copenhaver included, really believe that traditionally-schooled students these days don't rely a great deal on e-mail and the telephone to communicate with their instructors when a problem arises or a question comes to mind between class meeetings? I would not be surprised to find that many students and instructors in traditional settings prefer e-mail because it gives them an automatic written record of an exchange of ideas, complete with attribution in the form of a sender's name and e-mail address.

    And can Mr. Copenhaver really believe that the "face-to-face, person-to-person relationship between student and teacher" is the "core act of education" today? If he does, then he makes a great point for the value of distance education to students who want to experience learning at a higher and even more personal level. Making the student rely a little more on his or her own genious may, in fact, be the real core of education. If instructors are to be used by students as cruches, or even replacements to acutal thinking and feeling on the part of the student, then maybe all instruction should be non-traditional. I say take away the crutch, and make the students stand on their own two feet and develop their own intellect and problem-solving skills.

    Really though, I think that the "person-to-person" relationship that Copenhaver claims is so central to education seldom exists between students and teachers, even in the classroom. Most of my college education thus far has come from the traditional classroom, and I never felt that neither I, nor any other student that I know of, had a personal relationship with any instructor anything at all approaching the level of being at the core of our education. Even if it were intented to be the core of my educational experience, this "relationship" was only face-to-face for about five hours a week, at most. I thought the core of a concept was supposed to be it's deepest, most signifacant part. If it is the case that this "personal" relationship with my instructors should have been the core of my education, then I am hopping mad. Why did my professors assign so much reading? Worse yet, what did I have to do all those papers for? Why should I have been given so many tests and problems to solve? Wouldn't my time have been better spent having coffee with my professors, forming a person-to-person relationship and picking their brains for my "education?"

    No, on second thought, I am not mad (not even mildly irriatated), having just remembered that I have never seen a well-educated parasite.

    Tracy Gies<><
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have to say that I agree with your perception of interaction and interpersonal relationships in learning. One does not learn in isolation. One must have interaction and, yes, social contact. BUT this does not necessarily mean face-to-face contact.

    In distance learning classes (as opposed to correspondence and email independent learning -- which by the way suits some learners just fine), students interact with the instructor and with each other. This communication and sharing of knowledge and experiences is the heart of any learning.

    Discussions in DL classes are fantastic -- every student has many chances to state views and ask questions. The instructor's role becomes one of a guide in the learning process rather than a "dispenser of information"

    The opportunities for constructivist and active learning in DL classes far surpasses the same in traditional classes. I have gotten to know my professors in DL classes quite well -- much better than a prof in any traditional class I've ever been in. In fact I keep in touch with several of my DL professors on a fairly regular basis even now, months after graduation.

    Interaction and learning through computer mediated communication is for me a preferred way to learn. It is not for everyone. But for those who do not understand and refuse to keep an open mind, their views will never change.

    I got into DL grad classes three years ago because I wanted a degree and could not spend the time away from work going to classes. I was hooked during my first course online. Now I teach professional dev and grad courses online. My goal as an instructor is to provide the most interactive and meaningful learning experience I possibly can for all my students.

    Unfortunately, online instructors do not always know how to do this -- and so many students come away from DL feeling that they have missed out somehow in the educational experience. That little problem can be easily solved by training professors, instructors and teachers (and business trainers) in appropriate online instructional strategies.
     
  6. Jason Vorderstrasse

    Jason Vorderstrasse New Member

  7. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member


    Overall, Noble provides a narrow view. Distance education has grown where 1,230 distance degree programs were identified in 97 - 98 by the National Center for Education Statistics -- http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2000/2000013.pdf

    I think since that time the number of programs has probably grown. Maybe someday Noble will do real research on his opinion and focus on outcomes and who benefits from DL. One shoe does not fit all whether it be traditional or DL education. The Noble approach is to make one think that traditional education will crumble -- it will only do so with attitudes such as his.

    John
     
  8. samc79

    samc79 New Member

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