Does AACSB matter if you aren't going to teach?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by scotty, Apr 17, 2007.

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  1. scotty

    scotty New Member

    I know the question has been asked before and there is no straight answer, but perhaps someone could shed some new light onto the question that might help me choose between the non-accredited Heriot-Watt MBA and a UMass Lowell AACSB MBA. I hear good things about the Heriot-Watt MBA but I have no idea how employers look at it and no idea how its lack of accreditation would limit me in the future.
     
  2. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The differences between the two degrees are more substantial than the AACSB question, but at this time I doubt that most employers are aware that AACSB programs in the States tend to be more quantitative than other programs.

    Other differences worth considering are learning modality, international / local, networking with other students, and future perceptions of both schools, etc.

    Dave
     
  3. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Hopefully the Certified MBA test will gain momentum. There are currently extremely questionable degrees being earned at present. There needs to be better quality control in my opinion. The CMBA test is based on the AACSB model.

    http://www.certifiedmba.com/

    As of today most employers don't the difference in the different accrediting bodies. Mark my words, this is changing! One example is Intel, which recently announced it is only reimbursing for AACSB degrees. Others will surely follow.
     
  4. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    In what way is a certification mill like the CMBA better "quality control" than a Royal Charter?
     
  5. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Here is the straight answer I think you are actually looking for. Honestly, here in the United States, I think Heriot-Watt is virtually unknown (Heriot What?) Ask 10 people you know who don't frequent these boards what they think of the reputation of Heriot-Watt. I'll bet most, if not all, will tell you they have no idea what you are talking about. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, but don't expect big-time name recognition of Heriot-Watt here in the States.

    UMass, on the other hand, is exactly the opposite. Many people have heard of UMass, think of it favorably and it has the added benefit of not being a strictly "distance learning" school. As for AACSB, I'm sure if you are trying to work for a Fortune 500 company it might score you some points with a knowledgable HR manager. Otherwise, I think most employers are as clueless about AACSB as they are about the differences between regional and national accreditation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2007
  6. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member

    I disagree with the CMBA test

    I don't agree with this test and do not see the value.

    I have known many MBA students who excelled at strategy but had a terrible time with finance and quant.

    Some that are great at Organization behavior and Leadership change will not fully grasp economics and so forth.

    Some schools are quant oriented, Chicago GSB for example, some are finance, NYU Stern and some are strategy based, Pepperdine. Northwestern specializes in brand marketing.

    Unlike the Bar or medical board, there is no relevant public interest that will be served.

    I think its just another fee revenue mechanism and unless it was mandatory to graduate I don't know of one single person who would voluntarily take it.
     
  7. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member


    Believe it or not, it's not always a choice. Western Governors University REQUIRES their MBA students to take the CMBA exam. From their web site:

    "All MBAs are not the same. That's why MBA students at WGU must take and pass the Certified MBA Exam (CMBA) as part of their program. The exam provides "certification" of the knowledge and skills learned.

    Getting a diploma should be only one of your reasons to pursue an MBA. You also want to graduate with superior business and management skills. And you want to know you can compete in the business world with graduates of other programs.

    The Certified MBA™ is your proof. The CMBA Exam, administered independently by ICI, tests your command of core curriculum areas required across all accredited MBA programs. The test will cover the following subject areas:

    * Financial Accounting
    * Management Accounting
    * Quantitative Analysis
    * Microeconomics
    * Macroeconomics



    * Finance
    * Marketing Management
    * Operations Management
    * Organizational Behavior
    * Strategy

    Graduates of WGU's MBA programs will be among the select group who can add the CMBA designation after their names!"
     
  8. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that. Royal Charter certainly trumps the CMBA! The poster wanted to know how important AACSB is. My opinion is that in the US, it will become increasingly important.

    Certification mill? Can you elaborate?
     
  9. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member

    I never knew that

    Really? I guess I was wrong on some points. I just figure that most students master the subjects like I did but do not become experts in all of them.

    I would probably not passed the quant analysis part of my program without my group and I excelled in strategy so I led my group in formulation and implementation.

    I am still glad that there is no standardized test though. I've taken enough of those to last a lifetime.

    Thanks for the info though, it IS interesting stuff.
     
  10. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    IMHO, the CMBA is nothing more than a certification mill for the following reasons:

    1) They have nothing to do with the AACSB, but they love to throw the AACSB name around on their website. When asked about the CMBA, the AACSB board said they had "no official statement regarding the Certified MBA (CMBA)."

    2) So, if the AACSB wants nothing to do with the CMBA, then who are the business and/or academics that make up the CMBA exam? Must be some big names for such a prestigious certification. Behold, they are a "cross-section" of individuals. See http://www.certifiedmba.com/cmba_advis_business.shtml

    3) They will allow anyone to sit for the CMBA exam. Including graduates from pretty well known degree-mills such as AMBAI. See http://www.ambai.org/ and http://www.certifiedmba.com/directory/CMBA_directory.pdf .

    4) The sample questions and exam objectives on the CMBA website are a joke. Looks more undergraduate than MBA level.

    5) Website has not changed in years.

    Given the above points, it's pretty apparent to me that someone just cut/pasted/rewrote some objectives and questions from existing textbooks and made-up an exam. It's laughable that Western Governors requires this exam. Of all the CMBAs awarded in 2006, only 3 were NOT from Western Governors, and one of those was from AMBAI, a degree mill. If I were a WGU student, I would be pretty POed my "competency" would be evaluated on par with AMBAI students. I'm sure AMBAI students paid much less in tuition.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007
  11. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    CMBA is a bad idea.

    There are a lot accreditation mechanisms to ensure schools are providing good management education to their students.

    However, the worst thing I believe is that it limits creativity in curriculum design. With programmes like MBA, there are different features provided and different schools have different areas of expertise, e.g. some may focus more on quant skills while some are not... Having "standardised" exams like CMBA makes school only to offer courses fitting the exam.
     
  12. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member

    Thank you

    That was my point.

    While I am impressed by WGU's focus on a well rounded MBA program I know that different schools specialize and I have found that most students are looking for either " Brand " or specialization.

    A friend of mine went to Chicago GSB over Harvard due to his desire to work in the derivatives field. He had no use for case study method used at Harvard.

    He will start working in London on Merrill's derivatives trading desk later this year after he graduates. He will START at $250,000 . I doubt very much that he or Merrill has any interest in whether or not he can pass a test to see if he is competent.

    I chose Pepperdine over USC due to the fact that USC is very quant oriented and I had absolutely no interest in that. I wanted ethics and strategy.

    Just my two cents.
     
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Well, it certainly doesn't seem to have much momentum right now.

    The CMBA exam has been around for a few years now. The most current CMBA directory, dated October 2006, lists a grand total of ~ 250 names. Since 2004, it appears that only 17 names have been added to the list, and 14 of those were from a single school, Western Governor's University.

    The official "Certified MBA Exam Prep Guide" is on sale at Amazon.com. It's still in the first edition, dated April 2003. The list price is $75.95, but it has been reduced to $47.85. Not one reader has bothered to post a rating.

    Given that there are more than 2.5 million MBAs in the US, with 120,000 new MBAs awarded every year, there appears to be an extraordinary lack of interest in the CMBA exam. The exam got some publicity when it was first announced, and a few people from prominent schools (including Harvard, Yale, and Johns Hopkins) apparently did take it at that time. But interest seems to have fizzled out everywhere, except for WGU.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007
  14. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    That would be a real shame since many, many schools are not under that accreditation. Many of those schools not under that accreditation are very good schools, too. All this would do is eliminate many people's educational options.

    I think it's a good idea for companies to take steps to ensure quality at every level, but there is a point where the steps taken go too far and ruin the main concept.
     
  15. macattack

    macattack New Member

    Thanks for the CMBA info guys. I still like the idea, hopefully it will catch on. We need to add some credibility to the MBA degree with all the sub-par programs available now.
     
  16. macattack

    macattack New Member

    I hear ya. Hopefully more schools will make the effort to obtain this accreditation. It's tough to have a sub-par AACSB program. At least they should model their program by the AACSB guidelines, content and rigor.
     
  17. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    AACSB accreditation is a process, not a product, so there is nothing to model. (e.g. XX% of faculty will spend XX% of their time in research, advising, teaching. XX% of faculty will hold PhD's in XXX field, XX% of students will be in XXX major, etc.)

    Content and rigor is left up to the individual institution. (e.g. You will teach XXXXX and get XX% on the final to pass.) This is why, as LaJazz pointed out, Pepperdine is different from Chicago, National Sun Yat-sen University is a different program than Wharton, and Harvard is not the same as Florida Gulf Coast, even though they are all AACSB accredited.
     
  18. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    The numbers seem pitifully low, and they appear even worse with further research.

    According to ICI press releases, the CMBA exam was first administered as a "beta" exam in April 2003. A total of 304 examinees took the "beta" exam, and the exam fees -- which totalled $450 -- were waived for this group. Of these, 162 passed and became the first "CMBAs".

    It seems that people are much less inclined to take the CMBA exam if they actually have to pay for it. Since the initial free "beta" exam in 2003, it appears that only about 90 new CMBAs have been added to the list. The exam fees have been dropped from $450 to $330.
     
  19. Shawn Ambrose

    Shawn Ambrose New Member

    From the AACSB website...

    The newly accredited schools raise to 549 the number of institutions that have earned specialized AACSB accreditation for their business schools. They become part of an elite group that makes up less than 10 percent of the world’s business schools that have achieved business and/or accounting accreditation from AACSB. Tsinghua University becomes the first Chinese business school on the Chinese mainland to earn AACSB accreditation.

    So, does this mean "poor students" who don't have a business degree from an AACSB school are screwed? I think not.

    I agree with Maxwell, while AACSB is a nice thing, I'm sure that in that 90%, there are pretty good schools (And my MBA comes from an AACSB school).

    Shawn
     
  20. Scott Henley

    Scott Henley New Member

    A Royal Charter for a university in the UK is the same as RA in the US, although it sounds fancier. Even better, some universities in the UK are founded by Papal Bull!

    I think if you live and work in the US, you are better off getting a US degree and preferably an AACSB-accredited one.

    However, I have developed a little priority list (from best option to worst):

    1. U.S. MBA, RA, AACSB-accredited.
    2. Foreign MBA, RA-equivalent, AACSB-accredited
    3. U.S. MBA, RA
    4. Foreign MBA, RA-equivalent
    5. U.S. MBA, non-RA
    6. Foreign MBA, non-RA-equivalent
    7. Degree mill

    Heriot-Watt would be Ranked #4. UMass would be #1. However, it depends what you want to do with it. Since AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA are virtually international, not having one (or all) of these accreditations might be a liability.

    My opinion is a simple one: If you're going to spend the time and money to do an MBA, get the best value you can.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007

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