California Coast University Partners with CTU

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Spyder_70, Apr 7, 2007.

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  1. Spyder_70

    Spyder_70 New Member

  2. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    I don't think this proves anything.

    CTU would happily accept any and all graduates of a CHEA institution without second thought, as would almost all the for profits excluding DeVry.

    This is more like a co-marketing agreement than anything else.
     
  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    Did Sypder say it proved anything?


    Abner
     
  4. macattack

    macattack New Member


    Yes: "the NA/RA bridge is slowly becoming a reality".

    The "bridge" is to one borderline, profit-hungry school that would take anyone’s money that they can possibly exploit legally.
     
  5. Spyder_70

    Spyder_70 New Member

    Not proving anything yet...

    Just trending...the proof will reveal itself in all due time. But I really enjoy reading the NA "bashing & arguing" that takes place on this forum.

    Here's my take on the RA/NA issue: I've been in the corporate world for over 19 years and I've literally worked myself up the corporate ladder. I've come across workers that have graduated from all "over the world" (ie U.S., India, Japan, U.K., Canada, Germany etc), and come from different educational backgrounds and schools.

    Needless to say, I've come to this conclusion based on the people I've worked with over the years: It's not where you learned your knowledge that matters - It's what you've learned that matters the most.

    When I talk to workers that are graduates from overseas, it's truly amazing how the NA/RA line disappears - since it becomes an irrelevant point. When I am given a new worker in my organization and I conduct my assessments, I don't ask the person where he/she went to school, I tend to focus on how much the person knows, work experience, & personal qualities and use those points as a baseline.

    Future/present job performance is key in my organization and it isn't based on where a person went to school - it's based on the individual's unique personal qualities, aptitude/abilities, and how that individual applies all that learned knowledge gained through prior education and experience.

    Peace,
    -Spyder
     
  6. jagmct1

    jagmct1 New Member

    There are a few select individuals that frown upon pursuing an education at a nationally accredited school becuase they view the degree as "limited." Yet, when you talk to anyone who has graduated from a NA school the vast majority were extremely satisfied with their education and have had no issues whatsoever, nor should they.

    You then get, "well you can't transfer your credits to every single RA school, so it must be of lesser quality." Again this is a falicy as you can transfer to many RA schools through the CHEA/HETA agreement or through individual schools academic partnerships. As a matter of fact DETC statistics show students who "decided" to transfer to a RA institution had a 70% success rate. Many graduates from nationally accredited schools never have to transfer and/or never will.

    It's funny to read about the "RA or no way" folks who are the self proclaimed experts in the realm of accreditation, yet they have never attended or graduated from a nationally accredited school. They like to talk about how limited the degree(s) are, but have no personal experience. And when NA graduates talk about their successes they view it as, "well it just worked out for you."
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Columbia Southern University has similar partnerships with several schools, some of which are state, non-profit institutions, so I don't think that argument can hold up;

    http://www.colsouth.edu/alliances/universities.asp
     
  8. Vincey37

    Vincey37 New Member

    First of all, I don't see anyone attacking DETC here. A little sensitive are we? The only thing stated is that CTU will accept any individual they can while retaining their accreditation - proving this partnership to be no great accomplishment.

    As far as those believing the acceptability of NA degrees at RA schools will increase, what you do not understand is that it is not a matter of recognizing quality, it is one of competitiveness.

    Very few, I would think, actually believe the educational quality at the University of Phoenix is measurably greater than that at California Coast. But, it is in the benefit of all RA schools to exclude NA competition to the greatest extent possible.

    Do you think RA schools want to compete with operations like Grantham and Penn Foster which simply pay "graders" $15/hr instead of hiring faculty to teach classes? As long as RA is legally allowed to exclude NA, it will continue.

    You'll have to forgive macattack and I for being skeptical - but in our regulated profession I am fairly certain one out of fifty states allows NA graduates to participate in licensing. That's right. One. Even if this supposed change is happening, it has a very long way to go!
     
  9. macattack

    macattack New Member

    I'm not trying to argue anything. I'm just saying CTU wants your money, anybody's money, everybody's money :p
     
  10. Mark A. Sykes

    Mark A. Sykes Member

    I don't recall an argument asserting that NA credits couldn't be transferred to every RA school; in fact, I don't think all RA schools transfer one to another. Also, I don't believe anyone could make a substantial criticism of APUS's quality during their period of DETC accreditation. Most times I've heard 'select individuals' discuss RA vs. NA, the argument was framed in terms of utility and very often in the context of enrolling into and/or teaching at a specific RA school.

    The local adjunct/instructor job requirements I've read do explicitly state that the applicant's degree(s) must be regionally accredited. That's a particular circumstance, but a disproportionate number of forum readers fancy sitting at the other side of the teacher's desk someday. Wouldn't it be fair to discuss openly limitations one might encounter with any degree - NA, fourth tier RA, Big Three, foreign or distance?

    Mark,
    who attended DETC-accredited Penn Foster back when it was ICS and proudly displays his Animal Science and Gourmet Cooking diplomas at home.
     
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I think that sometimes there are limitations. Prospective students obviously need to be aware of them. That doesn't mean that DETC, ACICS, ACCSCT or whatever schools might not meet other students' needs very admirably.

    Nevertheless, somebody who anticipates future graduate work might be best advised to pursue an RA degree. Look at DL graduate programs. If you exclude business administration, with several hundred sometimes rather generic MBA programs, DL offerings are often pretty sparse. There might only be a small handful of programs available in a student's area of interest.

    On the other hand, federal government employment generally recognizes the 'NA' accreditors, so these degrees might work great for people seeking less competitive federal jobs or promotional advancement. I sense that they are widely used for that kind of thing.

    Then there are licensing considerations. Professional accreditations are often the critical factor here. (ABA, ABET, APA, NAAB, NLN, ALA...) Typically (but not always) it's the RA schools that have these additional programmatic accreditations. In fact, DL itself might turn into a problem since some of these accreditors won't accredit DL programs.

    In competitive hiring situations in both the public and private sectors, situations where education is a critical consideration such as doctoral-level academic and scientific employment, program reputation is probably going to be an important factor. The employer will be looking for somebody with advanced knowledge and skills in a specific area and will probably be interested in knowing whether a candidate's school is active and productive in that specialty. Again, most DL graduate programs might not show very well in that company.

    So people have to decide whether to enroll in a part-time DL program, whether to study part-time on-site, or whether to be a full-time B&M student. In some scholarly or pre-professional situations, DL itself might have serious limitations and the B&M road might be the best choice.

    If people choose DL, then they have to choose a program. Accreditation is going to be one important consideration, but certainly not the only one.

    Nevertheless, when alternative A has broader utility than alternative B, all other things being equal, people on the boards aren't being assholes when they suggest choosing A. Somebody who is really set on choosing B will probably want to argue that all things aren't equal, that B offers them something desirable that A doesn't offer, and that any limitations that exist are unlikely to be important in their case.
     
  12. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    As a student attending AMU/APU both during their strictly nationally accredited days and currently during their dual nationally accredited and regionally accredited status let me assure anyone doubting the quality and standards upheld by at least this school. The coursework, student-professor interaction via email and discussion board within the classroom has always been on the high end of the educational quality continuum. With the regional accreditation came a few changes, most notably the realignment of several degree offerings including expansion of the general education requirements to cover more academic areas. Recognizing that AMU/APU might not be representative of all nationally accredited schools I have found the academic rigor and educational quality on par with my experiences while attending on-campus courses at traditional brick-and-mortar universities. In some cases, AMU/APU has been more academically demanding than other regionally accredited schools from which I have taken coursework by distance education.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Actually, after reading so many bad experiences at UoP, I think that CCU has more credibility than UoP.

    I don't think that a CTU degree would be seen better than a CCU one either, so it is not really a problem of NA vs RA but credibility of institutions.

    Partnerships between for profits are going happen more often as schools like CCU would benefit from their students being able to take doctoral programs at RA institutions like CTU, an CTU would be happy to make more money from students coming CCU. It is a business matter.

    There is nothing wrong about wanting to take a CCU or CTU degree as these degrees might have better return of investment than other institutions depending on the situation of the individual. For example, let's suppose a community college teacher that can get a raise for an accredited doctorate, in this case CTU or Harvard would do the job so why to bother with a better degree. You are a sales professional and all you need is a degree in a resume so you can apply for a sales management position, if a CCU degree does the job, why to bother with a better degree too?.

    However, one has to be careful and be realistic about one's choices. There are obvious differences between degrees and institutions regardless of NA or RA accreditation. CCU or CTU might work for some but not for all.
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Hi - I think that Spyder's point is a good one. You can look at this as an isolated case where a low end, money hungry RA school connects with a DETC school but in all liklihood it is the beginning of a trend.
     
  15. JNelson467

    JNelson467 New Member

    I am excited of the news and where CCU is going!

    I will have to state that as a CCU grad, I am very excited to hear of the educational partnership with CTU. This is another step in which both CTU and CCU have taken to enhance continued options for students. In my opinion, it could be looked at as a win..win.. for both of them.
     
  16. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member



    I second that!

    Abner
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I guess I'm one of those, but you mis-characterize the argument. No one "frowns on" pursuing such degrees. But when the obvious (and well-documented) limitations of such degrees are declaimed, such statements elicit responses.

    That individuals are satisfied with such choices proves nothing. I would stipulate such. It is the larger picture, where generalizations are drawn from anecdotes, that advocates get into logical trouble.
    Who says anything about "lesser quality"? Don't change the argument. Lesser acceptance, yes.

    Being able to transfer to "many RA schools" proves the point. Not "all," or "most." It also ignores the vast number of schools who reject categorically credits from RA schools.

    These things might be unjust, but they are true. Decrying the unjustness is one thing, saying it doesn't exist or doesn't apply, or shouldn't be considered is foolish.
    Only 70%, as DETC points out. This is a tragic number, and should give anyone considering such a degree great pause. Oh, and I don't believe the study asked specifically about RA schools, just about whether or not graduates had gone on to further study. And the figure doesn't take into account the number of situations where an applicant was rejected at one or more schools before successfully being admitted, or where applicants specifically avoided being rejected by applying to those schools known to accept degrees from DETC-accredited schools.

    If you're going to use research data, it would help if you were (a) accurate and (b) willing to limit yourself to accurate inferences.
    This is a specious argument. We're not talking about something one must personally experience. One can observe it. Taking courses/degrees at an NA school makes no one any more aware of the general situation.

    Can you imagine? "That damn Dr. Salk, what does he know about polio vaccines? He's never had polio." C'mon.

    As for me, I conducted and published a carefully controlled study involving HR managers regarding this very topic. John Bear surveyed college registrars on this topic. Where's your research?
    The dreaded "they" are at it again. The "personal experience" question has already been dealt with above. As for working out in individual situations, the same can be said for degrees bought from diploma mills: they work out for many--if not most--of their purchasers. What does that prove?

    Other than mis-quoting DETC's survey, what do you have to show that there is no difference between earning a degree from a school accredited by an RA and one from a school that is DETC-accredited? Please point to the research that shows no significant difference. I've suggested three--my HR study, Bear's survey of AACRAO members, and the DETC survey you mention--as three that clearly show a gap. Plus, there is all the anecdotal evidence you could want from checking with individual schools. What do you have that negates what we all can clearly see?

    (NB: Such discussions with people who have a biased interest in the outcome of this issue are frustrating. It would be much more constructive to work on eliminating this gap instead of shutting one's eyes and wishing it would go away. But as long as some advocates--biased, self-interested advocates--continue to mis-state the facts, I'll be glad to refute them. But if we chose, we could move on to constructively dealing with reality. Their choice.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2007
  18. Arch23

    Arch23 New Member

    In the so-called "competitive hiring" mentioned above in the context of DL vs non-DL, I wonder how disadvantaged Duke's distance-learning MBA or the Univ of Southern Calif's distance-learning engineering or Coluimbia University's distance-learning education graduates really are versus the graduates of B&M programs in the same fields, let's say, of Ohio State University or the University of Minnesota (very respectable institutions in themselves) ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2007
  19. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    This thread went from someone basically saying this partnership was a positive thing, nothing more nothing less. Then others chose to make it about the limitations of NA degrees. I don't think any NA degree holder has ever specifically said NA degrees have no limitations. I for one, do not recommend somone pursue a NA degree if one wishes to become a teacher at a public school.

    Of course, any seasoned DL learner should know RA degrees have transfer limitations as well. So in essence, everyone must choose a degree that suits his or her needs. I have seen plenty of NA degree holders in this and other forums advise someone against an NA degree when that persons needs would not be suited. For many, including myself, my RA and NA degrees meet my needs, any have placed my on a list for a promotion. I am not trying to sell NA over RA. NA degrees do have utility, and DETC will continue to make strides. I don't think anyone is trying to prove anything, Spyder certainly never used the word "Prove", if so, I would like someone to read it back to me.

    Just my two cents gents and ladies,

    Have a great Easter!

    Abner :)
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Others? No, one person made a typically wild and inaccurate statement, and another responded. Hopefully, that should do it.

    Congratulations to both CTU and CCU. The more we see DETC-accredited schools working with RA schools, the better this whole field of DL will be.
     

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