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  1. #1
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Anyone know about the (closed) Clayton University (St. Louis)

    As some of you may know, I have an interest in naturopathic medicine, and a particular disdain for unwonderful naturopathic schools, which unfortunately means most of them.

    In looking into the dubious California College of Natural Medicine, I found this page

    http://www.traditionalnaturopathy.co...ge/faculty.htm

    in which the founder of the school claims to have been awarded a Naturopathic Doctor degree from Clayton University in a residential program. She also reports that the school closed in 1989.

    Trouble is, I can't find any reference to this school, and I don't remember ever hearing about an accredited school by that name offering naturopathic education . Anybody happen to know/remember anything about this?

    The unfortunate thing is, I ran across this unwonderful school while investigating the training of some dude

    http://www.brantleycure.com

    who is apparently hawking some book, with his sole "medical" credentials being a degree from the unwonderful Clayton College of Natural Health and the equally unwonderful California College of Natural Medicine.

    A chain of people educated in fake schools starting other fake schools to teach people to write books on fake healing methods. Nice, huh?

  2. #2
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    I'm confused. The thread refers to Clayton University, which used to operate in Missouri, but the first post talks about the Clayton in Alabama.

    These are two distinct institutions with no connection I've ever heard of. The institutions are named Clayton for different reasons, too. (The one in Missouri is named after a suburb of its home, St. Louis. The one in Alabama is named for its owner, Lloyd Clayton.

    Clayton in Missouri never, to my knowledge, offered degrees in naturopathy or other, similar areas.

  3. #3
    Daniel Luechtefeld is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    I'm confused. The thread refers to Clayton University, which used to operate in Missouri, but the first post talks about the Clayton in Alabama.

    These are two distinct institutions with no connection I've ever heard of. The institutions are named Clayton for different reasons, too. (The one in Missouri is named after a suburb of its home, St. Louis. The one in Alabama is named for its owner, Lloyd Clayton.

    Clayton in Missouri never, to my knowledge, offered degrees in naturopathy or other, similar areas.
    Clayton is the county seat of St. Louis County. It has a large population of County and private attorneys. I would be quite surprised to see a mill try their luck in this particular city.

  4. #4
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    Clayton University definitely operated from Clayton, Missouri (I visited the four-or-five-room offices several times in the early 80s) -- as did the totally phony University of North America (aka North American University), as well as the legitimate but unaccredited International Institute for Advanced Studies. Clayton was also the place where the Missouri Attorney General carried out his famous 'sting' operation that closed down the International Accrediting Commission.

    Clayton was one of very few schools to qualify for veteran's benefits and student loans under the "3x3" plan (they had to show that the credits or degrees of nine Clayton students were accepted by three regionally accredited schools -- three each), later expanded to the "4x4" plan (which Clayton also qualified for). This got Clayton listed in the official Higher Education Directory (published annually by the Office of Education , later privately).

    It would appear things have changed dramatically for Clayton. On Dec. 17, 2006, Fuji-TV, which I believe is the largest television network in Japan, aired a 90-minute special called something like "American Degree Mills in Japan." More time was devoted to Clayton than any other school. They pointed out that, perhaps unsurprisingly, many Japanese people have confused it with Creighton University in Nebraska. There has also been a book published, in February in Japan, based on that program. A Japanese colleague has written me that the program and book have gotten the attention of some influential people in the Diet, and it is possible that new laws may be in the offing.

  5. #5
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    I'm confused. The thread refers to Clayton University, which used to operate in Missouri, but the first post talks about the Clayton in Alabama.

    These are two distinct institutions with no connection I've ever heard of. The institutions are named Clayton for different reasons, too. (The one in Missouri is named after a suburb of its home, St. Louis. The one in Alabama is named for its owner, Lloyd Clayton.

    Clayton in Missouri never, to my knowledge, offered degrees in naturopathy or other, similar areas.
    My initial post IS confusing, and I think the practitioner may have intentionally tried to create the confusion.

    The woman operating the unwonderful California College of Natural Medicine claims a residential degree (in naturopathy) from Clayton of MO, but as far as I know, Clayton of MO was not a naturopathic school.

    And the unwonderful Clayton College of Natural Health, in AL or wherever it is this month, offers bogus naturopathic degrees, but has never offered residential programs of any kind, nor was it ever in MO.

    That's why I was asking. But I think John has answered the question... my guess is that the woman probably has a degree of some sort from the unwonderful Clayton of MO, but since the school is gone and there's no way to verify her credentials, she's now claiming it as a naturopathic degree, hoping people will confuse it with Clayton of AL. She apparently doesn't realize that both Claytons are unwonderful.

    Might be fun to contact her and see what she has to say.

  6. #6
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Further question:

    In her credentials
    (see http://www.traditionalnaturopathy.co...ge/faculty.htm )

    the proprietor of said unwonderful school says:

    Clayton University's prestigious Board of Directors included pioneers and experts such as Linus Pauling, and many other noted authorities.

    Is she just completely making this stuff up? I can't imagine why Linus Pauling would have lent his name to an institution like Clayton.

    Any ideas?

  7. #7
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    Chip: "...my guess is that the woman probably has a degree of some sort from the unwonderful Clayton of MO, but since the school is gone and there's no way to verify her credentials..."

    John: One added amusement here. After Clayton disappeared in Missouri, the inimitable Ray Chasse, founder of American Coastline and involved with six or seven other wonders, announced that he had secured the Clayton student records, and was offering to sell replacement diplomas and transcripts to Clayton alumni, from an address in Alabama

    As for Linus Pauling: I tried to confirm the connection once. I remember that I got a letter from his son Crellin saying, in effect, that in his later years, his dad was very generous with lending his name to people who asked, especially if they supported his Vitamin C theories, but nothing known specifically about Clayton.

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  9. #8
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    I'm not so sure how "non-wonderful" the Missouri Clayton was, at least at first. There seemed for a time to be a lot of structure and a legitimate attempt at creating a nontraditional school. But press reports became increasingly negative, and then Eugene Stone may or may not have done some "non-wonderful" things as he shut it down. Other than his name and the name of the school, there seems to be no connection between the currently operating Clayton in Asia and the old one in Missouri.

    There is a link on their website for replacing transcripts and diplomas. Perhaps with Chasse's departure they've taken on this line of business themselves. (Note to all those frauds out there: Clayton requires a signed letter from the graduate! So, no cheating!

  10. #9
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    Rich: Other than his name and the name of the school, there seems to be no connection between the currently operating Clayton in Asia and the old one in Missouri.

    John: I have no personal knowledge of this, but according to the investigative team from Fuji-TV, which had spent months delving into the Clayton situation (and 3 or 4 others), the Stones have been involved from the start and still are. Mrs. Stone's name appears a number of times on Clayton's Japanese website: http://khon.at.infoseek.co.jp/daigaku/clayton.html

  11. #10
    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bear View Post
    Rich: Other than his name and the name of the school, there seems to be no connection between the currently operating Clayton in Asia and the old one in Missouri.

    John: I have no personal knowledge of this, but according to the investigative team from Fuji-TV, which had spent months delving into the Clayton situation (and 3 or 4 others), the Stones have been involved from the start and still are. Mrs. Stone's name appears a number of times on Clayton's Japanese website: http://khon.at.infoseek.co.jp/daigaku/clayton.html
    I guess he's dead and his family is carrying it on. But you'd have to agree that there is no comparison between the original Clayton and this degree-selling thing.

  12. #11
    Chip is offline Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    I'm not so sure how "non-wonderful" the Missouri Clayton was, at least at first. There seemed for a time to be a lot of structure and a legitimate attempt at creating a nontraditional school. But press reports became increasingly negative, and then Eugene Stone may or may not have done some "non-wonderful" things as he shut it down.
    Our proprietress of the unwonderful naturopathic school in California conveniently tells us on her webpage that she earned her degree in 1988, and that the school "went out of business" in 1989. It's almost as though she's anticipating the verification question and answering it by saying, in effect, "Sorry, you'll have to take my word."

    This is one of the reasons that the (legitimate) naturopathic schools, of which there are three, maybe four, in the US, have such a difficult time. There are a ton of phonies out there, and the largest phony probably has more money than the largest legitimate program, so they spend it all lobbying against state licensure programs, arguing that their graduates, in spite of the fact they call themselves "doctors", do not prescribe or diagnose. Of course, it's BS... but it enables them to sell more diplomas.

  13. #12
    Vern is offline Registered User
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    Bearing the grief!

    Unfortunately, I took the positive reviews in John Bear's books of Clayton University and Columbia Pacific University to heart and earned degrees from those institutions. Later, I was informed that Bear received $100,000 from Columbia Pacific University. You can imagine how I feel. Since Bear is wealthy and I am not, I wonder of he would consider giving me a tuition refund for the bad information, so I can earn a degree from a better school.

  14. #13
    mathguy is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Unfortunately, I took the positive reviews in John Bear's books of Clayton University and Columbia Pacific University to heart and earned degrees from those institutions. Later, I was informed that Bear received $100,000 from Columbia Pacific University. You can imagine how I feel. Since Bear is wealthy and I am not, I wonder of he would consider giving me a tuition refund for the bad information, so I can earn a degree from a better school.
    Hey Vern!
    I was worse than you. Not only did I buy Bear's book in the 1980s but he offered consulting services for a fee. I still have the letter from Bear in which he recommended Clayton University for me. I graduated from the school with the worthless degree.

  15. #14
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    John Bear responds to Vern

    Vern:
    "...Since Bear is wealthy and I am not, I wonder of he would consider giving me a tuition refund for the bad information, so I can earn a degree from a better school."

    John Bear:
    Yes, I would consider doing that. Send me confirmation of your payment(s) to Columbia Pacific (receipts, credit card statement, and/or canceled checks) and evidence of your enrollment (copy of transcript and diploma). I will then verify with the archivist of CPU records, and if everything checks out, seriously consider your request. --John Bear (john.bear@mac.com)

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  17. #15
    John Bear is offline Senior Member
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    John Bear responds to mathguy

    mathguy writes:
    I was worse than you. Not only did I buy Bear's book in the 1980s but he offered consulting services for a fee. I still have the letter from Bear in which he recommended Clayton University for me. I graduated from the school with the worthless degree.

    John Bear responds:
    During the 1980s, the United States Department of Education offered what was known as the "four by four" school approval process. If a university could prove that degrees earned by at least four different graduates had each been accepted by four regionally-accredited universities (a total of 16 acceptances), then that university was officially recognized, qualified for all Veterans and student loan situations, was given an FICE number by the Federal Interagency Commission on Education , and was duly listed in the Higher Education Directory. Clayton University was one of the schools that qualified under "four by four." A degree consultant would be irresponsible if he or she did not recomend such a school to relevant clients.

  18. #16
    mathguy is offline Registered User
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bear View Post
    mathguy writes:
    I was worse than you. Not only did I buy Bear's book in the 1980s but he offered consulting services for a fee. I still have the letter from Bear in which he recommended Clayton University for me. I graduated from the school with the worthless degree.

    John Bear responds:
    During the 1980s, the United States Department of Education offered what was known as the "four by four" school approval process. If a university could prove that degrees earned by at least four different graduates had each been accepted by four regionally-accredited universities (a total of 16 acceptances), then that university was officially recognized, qualified for all Veterans and student loan situations, was given an FICE number by the Federal Interagency Commission on Education, and was duly listed in the Higher Education Directory. Clayton University was one of the schools that qualified under "four by four." A degree consultant would be irresponsible if he or she did not recomend such a school to relevant clients.

    A great paid degree consultant would have had more insight and offered better advice!

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