CCU to offer professional doctoral degrees the first quarter of 2007.

I received this newsletter from CCU today if anyone is interested-

We are thrilled to say that DETC just received continued recognition by the U.S. Department of Education for 5 years and their scope of recognition was expanded to include professional doctoral degrees! CCU hopes to make application to DETC to participate in offering professional doctoral degrees the first quarter of 2007.

 

This is actually really interesting. Being a graduate from Columbia Southern University times two (BSBA & MBA), I had actually given a lot of thought about enrolling back into CSU for their newly approved Doctorate of Business Administration (DBA). But, I was told having three degrees from the same school would be be too beneficial.

I wanted to look into another DETC DBA program and it looks like CCU may be the next one to start offering the DBA. Is so, I might beinterested in revieiwng their program.

 

RA Doctorate

Hi jagmct1,

Why don't you go for a RA doctorate instead?
Either Touro or Northcentral might be a good option.

 

Re: RA Doctorate

I was actually enrolled at Northcentral University, where I was pursuing a PhD in Business Administration. I was offered a part-time teaching position right when I started my studies, so I opted to withdraw and focus my energy and attention on the teaching position. It was a good decision, thus I've been very busy setting up my class, doing additional research projects for the school and being a part of the student retention committee.

Now that I've been able to reflect a bit on the pursuit of my doctoral studies, I'm now leaning more towards the DBA verses the PhD. I thought about CSU, but getting three degrees from the same school is not the best option.

I'm not sure if I liked the NCU format and I would like to go to a school with more online interaction and even possibly some short residency. Unfortunately, those schools (i.e., Capella, Walden) are very expensive and my current pocket book cannot afford it. And, I do not want to incurr any student loan debit.

I've been a huge fan of DETC and would not mind earning a doctorate from a DETC institution. And, a DETC school would be much more affordable. So, I'll either see what other DETC schools start offering the DBA and/or have a future employer help pay for the doctorate at one of the more interactive schools.

 

A CCU PsyD?

In general, I have serious concerns about DETC schools being empowered to offer professional doctorates.

Specifically, in examining CCU's programs, they are self-paced utilizing challenge examinations, transfer of credit, and completion of "study guides" as means of awarding credit.

As someone who has completed an RA distance psych PhD, I can tell you that a PsyD will never be licensed to practice psychology with a degree from such a program such as CCU.

I had to undertake classes (delivered online, but with a real live faculty facilitator), attend face-to-face residencies, complete practica, internship and post-doctoral fellowship.

Even with all that, state licensing boards look over the credentials of graduates from my program with a fine toothed comb to see if my program meets their regulations which stipulate a portion of the program be taken "in residence." Some states have denied our graduates licenses.

I can't speak to the other doctorates being mentioned as possible offerings.

But as the Doctor of Psychology (PsyD) is designed as clinical practice credential, why would anyone offer/enroll in a program that -- by design -- would not actually permit graduates to practice in the field for which one was preparing?

 

Re: A CCU PsyD?

Back in the days when it was unaccredited but state-approved, the CCU PsyD did qualify one to sit for the professional licensure exams in California. I'm not aware of their success rates or how many other states one could eventually get licensed in or anything like that, but it was possible. I'm guessing that if an unaccredited but state-approved PsyD is a valid credential for sitting for California's state licensure exams, then the DETC PsyD will be too. As always, buyer beware.

 

Re: A CCU PsyD?

In states in addition to those that insist on APA graduate applicants?

 

Yes ...

I had been considering a position at a Kansas state hospital (ironically, where the clinical director was a member of my university's faculty) and was told that the state licensing board had denied an earlier graduate's application on the grounds that the residency requirement had not been met.

Upon further review, I found a very similar requirement in three other states where I would be interested in living/practicing. One had granted a license to a Capella graduate. The other two had not yet been approached, but given the Kansas ruling (which had been appealed with attorney representation and upheld), I am not left with much enthusiasm to be the "guinea pig" for the other two states. (You basically have to pay the several hundred dollar application fee only to face the possible decision you are not eligible for further consideration.)

Particularly annoying is that Capella was careful to design the residency components to exceed the requirements of the most rigorous state licensing laws (which were apparently established to fend off the sort of "self-study," "correspondence" programs like CCU). However, members of state licensing boards have the authority to "play in the grey area" in order to rule a program's curriculum unacceptable.

I realize California has pretty unique requirements (including the being the only state that does not require lawyer candidates graduate from American Bar Association accredited programs) but -- regardless of California's size -- one state is still a pretty limited career path.

 

That sucks!

It must feel sometimes as if people look at your diploma and read Rodney Dangerfield University.

 

Re: Yes ...

Actually, California is not the only state that allows non-ABA grads to take their Bar exam; they are the only ones to allow both non-ABA and distance learning law degrees.

 

Re: Re: RA Doctorate

Congrats on the new teaching gig! Way to go!


Abner

 

Although the vast majority of states will currently not allow one to practice as a Psychologist with a DETC doctorate, the degree may still be useful to master level clinicians in such fields as counseling and social work. It may enable them to obtain advanced academic credential to add to their professional portfolio as well as possibly enable them to refer to themselves as "Doctor" in marketing their practice. However, it is important to carefully review state board of licensures (in counseling, social work, etc) rules and regulations as well as state laws and statutes in order to ensure that one will be able to legally use a DETC in Psychology to refer to themselves as "Doctor".

 

Seriously?

So you are advocating that mid-level practitioners deliberately obtain a sub-standard degree, which technically permits the use of the title "doctor" but does not meet the generally accepted standards to be licensed to provide psychological services at the doctoral level?

Sounds like a perfect recipe for deception -- just what an already overcrowded, poorly differentiated, and woefully misunderstood profession needs!

I thought a primary reason for this forum was to assist people in finding legitimate programs that provide actual education for their desired career path? Have we now moved to helping people obfuscate the standards of professions and give ammunition to those who would summarily dismiss distance/non-traditional programs as nothing but fancy diploma mills?

 

It is very exciting to see this happen with DETC, finally, and to see schools like CCU responding. There are a couple of small California State Approved schools who didn't go forward with DETC accreditation, because of the necessity of dropping their doctoral programs. Now, this development removes that stumbling block. What is most interesting to me are the differences between DETC and RA doctoral standards, and whether those standards affect the quality of scholarship.

This DETC development reminds me of a good book that I'd like to recommend to all:

Wieruszowski, H. (1966). The medieval university; masters, students, learning. Princeton, NJ: Van Nostrand.

While there are other books on the subject, this one is very accessible and documents the sometimes ridiculous hassles over legitimacy of institutions of higher learning relative to possessing/obtaining a papal charter.

Dave

 

Re: Re: CCU to offer professional doctoral degrees the first quarter of 2007.

Dave, I am interested in hearing more about your perspective concerning the differences between DETC and RA doctoral standards?

Should there be two sets of standards?
As I said earlier, I thought a purpose of this forum was to support people in obtaining legitimate educations. It isn't possible to adhere to one set of standards so that people -- students and the public alike -- have some assurance that a degree does represent an understandable, quantifiable achievement?

Now I realize there can be honest debate about what makes a program "legitimate" but from what I've seen of DETC programs -- while they do serve a "legitimate" purpose -- their focus, tradtionally, has not been academic. Does it not muddy the waters to now have non-academic institutions begin offering what has long been seen as the pinnacle academic acheivement?

For the argument that these would be professional doctorates, as I said on a different thread, does the New York Institute of Photography need to offer a Doctor of Professional Photography?

There are people out there already strongly critical of the PsyD training model to begin with. Isn't this just further diluting the reputation of such a degree?

RA is by no means perfect, but I would say it is less capricious than obtaining a papal charter.

 

Re: Seriously?

PsychPhD (to be referred to in the future as Don Quixote, the one who attacks windmills believing that they are his/her adversaries): So you are advocating that mid-level practitioners deliberately obtain a sub-standard degree, which technically permits the use of the title "doctor" but does not meet the generally accepted standards to be licensed to provide psychological services at the doctoral level?

SIMON: Don, how long have you been experiencing these beliefs of others attempting to "deliberately" advocate "sub-standard DETC degree(s)", using a (c) next to their Ph.D to deceive others and your advocating against nurses wishing to obtain a doctorate to improve their status in their profession? There is a pattern Don that is obvious to all of us.

Don Quixote: Sounds like a perfect recipe for deception -- just what an already overcrowded, poorly differentiated, and woefully misunderstood profession needs!

SIMON: First you inappropriately and obsessively roiled and attacked a faculty member of an unaccredited school for affixing a (c) next to his Ph.D. Then you denigrated the nursing profession by comparing them to prostitutes and truck drivers to prove your totally unsubstantiated belief that there is no basis in nurses obtaining a doctoral degree. Now you are obsessively alleging "deception" for indicating that a DETC doctorate in Psychology that is approved by CHEA, the same organization that accredits RA doctorates, can be utilized by certain clinicians. Sorry Don, we are aware of your pattern of inciting flame wars and combative and angry interactions with other posters but as always its just another windmill, no more, no less.

Don Quixote; I thought a primary reason for this forum was to assist people in finding legitimate programs that provide actual education for their desired career path? Have we now moved to helping people obfuscate the standards of professions and give ammunition to those who would summarily dismiss distance/non-traditional programs as nothing but fancy diploma mills?

SIMON: Unfortunately Don there can be no real meaningful dialogue with you regarding this or any other issues because of your mindset which falsely ascribes negative motives (ie, deception, etc) to others, demeaning remarks about others' professions (ie, nursing, etc) and a misconstuing of others posts.

 

Wow ..

All attempts to speak to you as an adult of at least average intelligence will now cease as you have made it abundantly clear that your only objective is to perpetuate your narrow agenda of character assassinations. (Why else would you be incessantly referencing other long ended threads?)

I hope you get the professional help you so obviously need.

 

Zing

DETC cannot be compared to RA. They are two entirely different accrediting bodies. The differences are even more distinct at the Masters and Doctoral levels because RA holders are qualified (at least on paper) to teach at either RA or DETC institutions, while holders of DETC degrees are barred from teaching at RA institutions, if their DETC degree is what they are relying on as their academic credential. Most people obtain an RA doctorate with the goal of teaching at other RA institutions, either part-time or full-time. As long as those who are pursuing DETC degrees understand that they are barred from teaching at RA institutions, then it's okay for them to go that route.

 

Re: Wow ..

PsychPhD/Don Quixote: All attempts to speak to you as an adult of at least average intelligence will now cease as you have made it abundantly clear that your only objective is to perpetuate your narrow agenda of character assassinations. (Why else would you be incessantly referencing other long ended threads?


SIMON: Poor Don, Don, Don. No insight or any notion as to how you are coming across in this forum. You make blanket accusations of my engaging in "deception", make an obvious hostile inference regarding my level of intelligence but then in a pompous, totally out-ot-touch manner falsely alledge that I am culpable of character assissination. And you are an model/advocate for RA distance doctoral degree programs in Psychology? Oh brother!

Don Quixote:I hope you get the professional help you so obviously need.

SIMON: Oh I will get "professional help" Don! I need my house renovated and will follow your advise. BTW Don, your "advise" above is clearly what you feel about yourself so why don't you practice what you preach and hope that you feel better in the future.

 

Re: Zing

This is what perplexes me.

This isn't just about seeking teaching positions.
(Though I am curious why DETC doctorates would be barred from teaching in RA schools.)

My concern is (and always has been) if a DETC degree is simply not equivalent in the minds of the education community (regardless of DETC's status with CHEA), why would DETC be encouraged to venture into the academic areas?

Additionally, as I have explained in detail before, the DETC PsyD would appear to be worthless even as a strictly professional degree and will likely confuse prospective students and the public alike as to its validity and utility.