Online learning SUCKS!

At least that's what I was told today by an ex-teacher who thinks that online education is a waste of time. I tried to argue with him, but it was no use.

What a clown.

Sorry guys, just had to vent for a minute.

 

Everyone has their own opinions. Despite being a DL focused forum, even the folks here are open-minded enough to acknowledge both sides of the arguement.

 

Some people are still stuck in the "Old School" way of thinking. Online/DL learning is becoming more and more prevalent though. I am starting to meet many people who are distance learners, as opposed to seven years ago.

I will give you an example. Around seven years ago, I started taking classes at the University of Iowa via DL. My sister in law would just give me a blank, confused look when I told her I was a student via DL. Now that her friend (a teacher) is completing her Masters via DL at Concordia, suddenly DL seems to be ok/credible in my sister in law's eyes. Go figure.

Don't worry about it! A buckskin is a buckskin.


Abner

 

Perhaps, maybe this is why he is an ex-teacher ?!

 

I honestly completed a year of traditional campus based learning before doing online. I have to say there is no competition. I was given much more individual attention online than at the local Community College.

Ashworth College however, was on par with the local college.

 

Objections to Online Learning

What were some of the teacher's objections to online learning?

Thanks,

Dave

 

But the critics are remarkably passionate

I also contribute to a discussion forum on clinical psychology and can attest to the "some people will always find something to complain about" sentiment.

That people may be suspicious/leery of distance learning is not surprising. We all tend to fear/dismiss that which do not understand.

What I do find distressing is the venom spewed by some of the critics. Their concerns are not based (or sustained) by any evidence or experience, they just "know" that online learning has to be sub-standard. Even when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they are steadfast in their belief. Even more troubling, these aren't "Average Joes and Janes" but "Professor Sams and Sallys" -- people with advanced educations who should know to base decisions on evidence and data instead of anecdotes and intution.

As someone who earned a BA conventionally living on campus at a mid-sized state college, a MSEd nights and weekends at a satellite campus of a large university in a major city, a PhD from a distance program, and now teaches for two undergraduate DL programs ... I have done my homework. Before I enrolled in my doctoral program, I was suspicious too. But I looked into the program and, trust me, after I began and saw how much work I actually needed to do, I became a believer!

As an online instructor who started college teaching in a conventional B&M university, you can rest assured that my students are not getting an easy ride. They use the same materials and have the same assignments as my offline students.

Actually, that isn't true. There is a difference between the online and offline versions of my class. The online students do more work. As most people here will attest, you cannot hide in the "back of the room" in an online class. Every student must complete every assignment. My online classes are essentially weeks long essay exams and still include multiple choice exams and research papers.

Yes, someday, as DL become more then norm, the suspicions will diminish to nothing but a dull hum of background noice from a die-hard few that will not disappear entirely until these people die off.

Here's wishing them an early grave!

 

Comparison Online v Classroom

I have taught legal subjects to both undergrads and persons seeking certification in paralegal. I have taught at two local colleges, (and still do) and I have taught at two different online schools. I currently teach at Washington Online Learning Institute (WOLI). I must say that, overall, the students at WOLI are getting a better education than my students at the brick and mortar colleges. Why? Well, first of all, the students themselves in the online environment are simply more involved and more interested than the students at the colleges. Of course, this is a generalization, and there are clear exceptions, but overall, the online students are more motivated. I don't know if online just attracts more motivated people, or if the online environment lends itself to creating more enthusiasm...I suspect it is a little of each.

As far as personal attention goes, there is simply no comparison. The students in the online environment get far more personal attention than do the students in my classrooms. There are several reasons for this. First of all, WOLI policy requires the teachers to provide close attention to each and every student. No student is ignored. Now, to be fair, this was not the case at the first online school I worked at, but WOLI is in a different league altogether, very first rate with much more substance to the courses and much more emphasis on the students. Secondly, and this is a biggie, students at WOLI go online 24/7; they are not constrained to show up for class at a certain time and take notes....so the discussion boards, for instance, flow fast and furious and this generates a lot of passion for the subject matter. There is far more class participation at WOLI than in my college classrooms. And I teach at good schools!

So, if you ask me, I would have to say that online studies at a good school like WOLI have many features that make them superior to studies pursued in traditional lecture type classrooms.

And, from what I see, job placement from the online school is fine.

Of course, you can have an inferior online school just as you can have an inferior class at college. And you have to be careful about what school you choose...but the online format clearly offers advantages over the classroom, and a high quality online school will be equal to, if not better, than the average classroom at an American college.

 

One Additional Thought

I want to add one point about student participation. It is often easier for some students to participate in class discussion on a discussion board....it is easier than raising one's hand in class...this applies to a fair number of students and I think contributes to the excitement of online learning that may be missing sometimes from the classroom where a small group of students tend to dominate the discussions.

 

Re: But the critics are remarkably passionate

Maybe they do know that the hard evidence doesn't back them up, hence why they call on "conventional wisdom" which is more powerful on large groups. After all, they are trying to save their own livelihoods, aren't they?

 

Re: But the critics are remarkably passionate

Modality; Schmodality!

Yes, I strongly agree with most of what you've said. I don't wish the critics an early grave, but I think those who resist distance learning are hastening there own extinction. Market forces, demographics, and technology are all colliding to transform higher education, and those who don't see that are hopelessly naive.

In distance learning, students are faced with more structure and instructors are held more accountable. Certainly, it is challenging to mentor Ph.D. students completely online such as how Touro and NCU are doing it or though limited residency as Capella and others are doing it, but it certainly is possible to produce scholars. At the undergraduate level, I have found it difficult to teach statistics completely online to math challenged students, but it is possible with lots of individual attention.

In my opinion, most of the criticism about online education seems to be veiled criticism of "for profit" institutions, as nearly every traditional school offers at least a few distance learning courses.

Dave

 

Re: Objections to Online Learning

His big objection was the lack of face to face. I tried to argue with him that there are different ways to learn and lacking the face to face can still provide a good learning experience for a lot of people. He dismissed that notion completely and said without the classroom, what people do in an online class is not "real learning".

 

Thems fightn' words Steve. At least on this forum.

 

Re: Re: Objections to Online Learning

Well, I don't know about your teacher; but I believe that he doesn't believe in knowledge is power. I graduated from Troy University with a Bachelor degree in Computer Science via distance education. I then applied to George Mason University to earn my Master degree in Telecommunications; which is the field that I really want to master. After one semester with two classes; I can tell there is no difference between distance education and B&M. About 50% of the lectures were about their experience in the workforce ("likes telling a story!"); the question can be asked during the lecture. After that you have to call the TA, all the exam, homework assignements are graded by TA. The fact that I don't care about their experience, I just want to learn the fundamental of the subjects. Now, I am back to distance learning....at least I can go back to the video and watch the lecture over and over again.

The only thing I like about traditional college is party; other than that I am fine with distance learning.

Well...that's my opinion.....!!!!!!!!

 

Re: Re: Objections to Online Learning

While I don't wish to undermine the authority of another teacher, I do think it is amazing that this teacher hasn't retired yet. I wonder how the teacher would describe the information exchange that is taking place in a one-on-one email conversation with a student. Isn't asking a question through email and receiving an answer a mode of instruction?

Dave

 

Re: Re: Re: Objections to Online Learning

He's retired from teaching. Runs his own business now.

 

The reality remains that time is on the side of the distance learner. We are in living in a world that is getting smaller and smaller everyday. We're not just competing in our local markets for jobs, we can now expect to compete with China and India and they have a billion people looking to do your job!! For someone like me, single with a child, I would have never had an opportunity to go back to school. The online option has opened a door for me so that I can at least try to raise the standard of living for me and my daughter. People who look down on the online education option are not basing their opinions on the real world we live in.

 

Horse and Buggy?

Those who so smugly denigrate online learning are like those who scoffed when the "horseless buggy" was introduced back at the turn of the last century.

 

Re: Horse and Buggy?

Well, the "horseless buggy" was introduced one hundred years before the turn of the last century.

It was introduced in the 19th century, we are in the 21st. now.