A Discussion on the Value of an MPA

Hello everyone,

Last night I had an interesting conversation with a relative of mine about grad school and degree programs. I told him that I was probably going to pass on getting an MBA and was looking into an MPA instead due to my career in criminal justice, experience, etc.

He told me he felt that this would be a mistake saying that getting an MPA will “pigeon hole” me in the eyes of any hiring manager and would never be regarded as well as an MBA. I thought that the fact that I have spent over 5 years in law enforcement and earned both undergrad degrees in Criminal Justice pigeon holed me already but he argues otherwise.

So looking into the MPA, everyone knows that an MPA is great for public sector work and that the MBA is great for private sector work. But is an MBA likewise considered a “benchmark” or “powerhouse” degree in the public sector that it is in private sector?

Is the MPA truly only good for public sector and non-profit? Is the MPA not a management degree and would it not also carry over many of the same skills and traits that the private sector requires of their management?

What is the value of an MPA in private sector?

He told me I would be better serving myself by getting a Masters in Science in Management because at least then I would qualify for a middle management job.

Now as for me personally, I don’t ever see myself leaving public service, but if I am inclined to do so and I don’t take a security executive job, I’m going into business for myself. Maybe I’m part socialist, but the idea of getting an advanced graduate degree so that I can be in a better position to make someone else rich is revolting to me. Additionally I am curious about the value of an MBA in the public sector. I see many counties like “business” bachelor’s degrees or public admin, etc. but these are usually accountancy jobs, auditors or the like.

Anyone here have an MPA? What are your observations?

Anyone here have an MBA and work in private sector? What are your observations?

Lastly is a nationally accredited MPA (as in NASPAA) as big of a deal to the MPA that the AACSB is to the MBA?

 

An MPA in the private sector crosses over just a much as an MBA in the public sector. The two degrees do cover some common ground, but are very distinct. If you plain on staying in the public sector the MPA will be your better bet. The MBA will not hurt you, but it will not give you the same utility in the public sector.

 

My brother feels the same as you. To use a baseball analogy....


The MBA is a homerun for private sector and a double for public sector where the MPA is the mirror opposite, a home run for public sector and a double for private.

So for the sake of argument, if you recieved an MPA and decided to go into private sector work, would supplamenting the degree with something akin to the Tulane University Master Certificate in Business Management help much?

http://www.elearners.com/college/uatu/

 

Just my thoughts. I'm stepping out on a limb here but I would even go as far to say that even a management degree would be beneficial in the public sector. I'm currently working on the M.S Human Relations and Business at Amberton and the work is very transferable to my public career. But I guess it comes down to the work you would be doing whether it is private or public sector.

 

I like Amberton's Human Relations in Business degree, but they're the only ones to have that animal and it may not be immediately recognizable to a hiring manager. I have to admit that when I first saw it I thought it was an HR degree.

 

I honestly haven't looked at alot of private sector career opportunities but I think for public sector management the MPA is the degree to have. I'm an MPA holder and also in law enforcement and feel that my degree will serve me well throughout my career. My aspirations are to continue to move up the ranks in my current department and perhaps transition to city management at some point. I think if your goal is to stay in law enforcement you can't go wrong getting an MPA degree. It is definitely a management degree. I believe most NASPAA programs have very similar core course requirements which essentially deal with the nuts and bolts of public sector management. Some of the other options including an MBA might work for you but if your goal is to promote within law enforcement I think you would be much better off pursuing an MPA.

 

I like APU's MPA program but I don't believe they are NASPAA accredited, however they are RA.

Is the NASPAA a big deal like the ACBSP for business?

 

My anecdotal observation:

IMO an MBA will attract more favorable attention than an MPA any day of the week -- hands down. The two cannot be compared.

 

Re: My anecdotal observation:

That's an overly general statement. It depends on what you want to do. For example if you want to be a city manager or police chief I don't think and MBA will even get you in the door for an interview in most places as the MPA is the required academic credential.

 

Re: Re: My anecdotal observation:

• Originally posted by cumpa
  That's an overly general statement. It depends on what you want to do. For example if you want to be a city manager or police chief I don't think and MBA will even get you in the door for an interview in most places as "the MPA is the required academic credential."

I have never seen a requirement for an MPA to be a police chief. Can you show me one?

My local state university offers an MA in criminal justice administration and it is designed exclusively for police administrators. It deals with issues that pertain exclusively to running a police agency, such as hiring, discipline, unionization, budgeting, racial topics, interagency communications (communication with the commissioners, zoning...) etc. Why would the MPA be "the required academic credential" to be a police chief?

 

Re: Re: Re: My anecdotal observation:

As an MPA holder I also believe that the MBA is held in higher esteem in most of the public sector. I believe that the MPA is too focused on government bureaucracy (for great utility in the non-public sector) and that the MBA is the universal management standard. Thus the MBA will usually catch more interest (of course exceptions exist), and it will usually be rated as equivalent to the MPA when the MPA is required in the position description. It should also be noted that when the MPA is looking for a job in the non-public sector the utility of the MPA degree is usually somewhat limited...

Of course there are those jobs in government where a graduate degree is a graduate degree and it is just a check mark in the screening practice. This is probably the case for most law enforcement management positions. Perhaps more important than the degree title is where it is from... parchment does make a difference.

I'm sure that there are at least a couple of Chief positions that require the MPA... written by either short sighted HR folks or written in an effort to tailor the position description to a particular candidate... which is not usually deemed as an acceptable practice when challenged.

I also believe that the MPA is most profitable to the holder when they are at that point in their career where they are preparing to move into management. I was awarded my MPA just before I was hired into the public sector as a "rank and file" employee. I personally did not see any visible benefits of the MPA as an employee. It did not appear to give me an advantage in competitive promotions. The lesson here was the value of the MPA (or any graduate degree) is in the eyes of the hiring or promoting authority. If they hold education in high esteem it should mean something. If they look at you as "some college boy/girl" it will probably mean absolutely nothing. This is perhaps the difference between working in a rural community (as I did) or a metropolitan community.

 

Very insightful post Bruce. I obviously didn't state my position very well as there are exceptions to the MPA requirement for chiefs jobs. There are far fewer exceptions to the MPA requirement however for city managers positions. A masters in criminal justice is also often listed as a preferred degree in chief's job announcements that I've seen.

I disagree that an MBA is the preferred degree if you seek a career in public sector management. If you want the most bang for you buck maybe an MBA is the better choice but if you know you want to work in government I still feel that the MPA is a better option. And I completely disagree with a blanket statement such as the one made by me again.

I'm also one of the people who supports the notion that those wanting to enter law enforcement should pursue a criminal justice degree while many think that an aspring leo should have a broader education. I think if we are ever going to get the professional recognition that most career law enforcement people desire we need to set standards and establish professional credentialing requirements but that's just my opinion.

 

Re: Re: Re: My anecdotal observation:

Marist College's online MPA program used to offer a concentration in Criminal Justice Administration, but there's been no mention of it on their website for quite awhile.

That was what I used to recommend to people torn between a CJ or MPA degree, it had the best of both worlds.

 

Bruce, Cumpa,


As MPA graduate I concur with Cumpa that the MPA has more marketability within the public sector. If you search the Federal Job Digest many civil service positions GS 9-11 the MPA would substitute for the require years of experience.

Currently I work in the private sector (IT) and several of my fellow engineers have MBA’s my MPA has not hindered me in regards to promotions, and salary increases.

With that said I am thinking about moving into the public sector I recently move into a project manager role I am an ex-military officer with ten years of experience as a network engineer in healthcare.

What federal jobs would you suggests do you think I could qualify for a GS12 level position?

 

Cumpa,

Indeed, City Managers (and some other high level bureaucrats) are a completely different story. MPA's are hard currency there. Perhaps due to the curriculum of most MPA's being mostly applicable to those jobs.

I will be the first to admit that perhaps I am somewhat jaded regarding the MPA... perhaps in part due to my rural government experience... The MBA is better known in most circles... and getting the MPA before I was able to go into management was really not all that useful for me in the public sector... However for someone who is employed in the field and preparing to move into management it would be highly appropriate and beneficial... The moral of this story is not to jump the gun and rush into a grad degree... experience is very important and having experience will create a greater opportunity to link experience to theory as the curriculum is conquered... in turn it will allow you to move beyond the theoretical and into complete mastery of the curriculum...

Perhaps the greatest criticism of standard CJ degrees is that they are usually too cross-disciplinary and generalist... my personal preference if I was to go back into time would have been to pursue a grad degree in forensic psychology...

But then again this is a debate that is quite common in academic circles... CJ is still not totally respected as a discipline unto itself... (perhaps this particular direction of the discussion is best as a separate discussion).

I can see both sides of the fence regarding the grad degrees of choice for CJ professionals... For those who want a shot at Chief an MPA or CJ management degree is best... for those who simply want to get to retirement and a preparing for their second career (like teaching, etc) then their focus should be on the future...

Your statement regarding the professionalism of the profession is on target (IMHO)... I guess the difference is between those who are waiting out their time to retirement and those who are aspiring professionals... and of course this is true in many professions...

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: My anecdotal observation:

I have to respectfully disagree. An MBA clearly has value, but an MPA is almost required in public management. It is precisely its focus on government bureaucracy that gives it value. MBA's teach you to make management decisions primarily on a cost benefit analysis. If the operation does not make money, move on or make changes that will make the venture profitable. However, on the public side this is not the case. A municipality cannot stop picking up trash or providing other government services if doing so is not profitable. Accordingly, here in lies the value of the MPA. The MPA prepares managers to make “performance based” decisions to maximize outcomes in the face of bureaucratic, political, fiscal, patronage, constituencies and legal constraints. The MBA does not prepare its students for these types of management undertakings, nor does the MBA have to. The MBA is a great degree which focuses on business problem solving of “real issues germane to the undertaking.” Public sector managers seem to have to deal with a whole host of other issues NOT GERMANE to the undertaking in order to move things forward. The private side is much more straight forward.

 

I like the sound and concept of an MBA in "business". I don't really see how it applies to govt. work other than a demonstration of a skill set.

I have really agonized over getting an MBA, especially St. Joe's, but the commitment and dedication to study something that I am frankly, not too interested in is discouraging.

A couple of things I have considered was that if I got an MPA and later decided that I want to go private sector, I would probably supplement my MPA with a Master Certificate in Business Administration from Tulane University. Tulane has more name recognition than St. Joseph's College and I think I can take anything, including business courses, for 6 months. I think a graduate degree with that cert, should carry a certain amount of weight.

Is an MPA required for police chief? Certainly not, however I'm sure it is desirable. I do intend to eventually get a second masters in criminal justice later down the road to teach.....among other things.

An MBA may get me considered for a management job and do little for me in the private sector, but if I go private sector I assume I'll be in some type of security role......in which a BSCJ or MSCJ would be the preferred degree. However I would like to have a "management" degree and an MSCJ just doesn't seem to fit the bill as it does not demonstrate an ability to budget, understand HR, understand employment law, etc.

I think most MPA programs require the skills of an MBA, but with a different focus. I would assume it could be argued then that with a Business Admin. Grad certificate one could say that the MPA could utilize those skills in private sector.

Of course another option for the same price would be to get a NA MBA from Aspen University ($4200 temps even me).....but I don't see an NA MBA impressing anyone more so than a RA MPA....or even garnering more interest than the cert from Tulane….so it would be sort of self defeating.

What do you guys think of the idea of a supplemental Cert. like Tulane's combined with the MPA? Viable?

 

I guess it would also help to say what I am considering.

Currently I work for a quasi-federal law enforcement agency.....I am in a management now. I plan on leaving my department for a more typical police job where it is possible to specialize in investigations, crime scene, motorpool, DARE officer, etc., like at a large metropolitan dept.

The only other type of position I have given serious consideration to was a management opportunity over security for a large government contractor. A BSCJ was the minimum req. along with 5 years management experience.....I have 4 years and am this shy of the requirements.

Other positions I have considered are at the management level in the county, courthouse, corrections, etc. I do not plan on starting over in private sector, I've come too far down this road to start a new one, and honestly, though I hate it sometimes, I can't imagine doing anything else because, God help me, it's in my blood.

But that's my story......back to the MPA.

 

JDLaw93,

Whereas your argument for the MPA is on-target and well stated it is also applicable to the MBA... true... the MBA is trained in a cost-benefit world... and this does apply in the reform government world... especially in light of declining revenues and the increasing costs of providing services... looking at government in new light is oftentimes very welcome in the public sector...

Once again, it depends on the mindset of the city council, city manager, department heads and other managers, and I believe the public sector as a whole is represented by just about every mindset out there... the rural government may very well have different priorities from the metropolitan government...

 

Friendorfoe,

Wow... this discussion is on fire!

Parchment is very important... the better the school the more impressive the degree is (more-so than title of the degree IMHO)... Tulane would be a nice addition to your resume!

Graduate certificates are good... they allow you to add academic qualifications when the degree program options are limited... (My MPA program at the time did not have a CJ specialization which was disappointing...)

I also believe in supplemental grad degrees... My MPA has been quite beneficial in establishing myself in my school psych internship...

A career in the security world might be better served with a grad degree in security management (Michigan State has a good one: http://www.cj.msu.edu/~academic/MSIntabouttheprogram.htm)

I always recommend RA over NA... especially if considering the potential to teach at an RA school... NA has some utility... but it is limited in many areas... be very-very careful if you are considering NA...