DETC J.D. or RA Ph.D.???

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by sshuang, Oct 26, 2006.

Loading...
  1. sshuang

    sshuang New Member

    I am currently working for a public software company in accounting. In 10 years, I would like to set up a small tax/accounting practice and to teach in college/university as an adjunct or full professor. Right now, I have the following two options and am struggling as to which route to take:

    1. Few years ago, I completed a year of correspondence law study at Taft. I took the Baby Bar only once and missed by 2% points.

    2. Few years ago, I also completed 6 out of 11 required courses for Ph.D. at Touro. Currently, I am not registered with the University and need to reapply.

    Should I retake the Baby Bar, study for 3 more years of law, and pass the General Bar? Or should I reapply to Touro, complete the remaining 5 courses, and write the dissertation? Both options will probably take me the same amount of time and money.

    Any suggestion will be highly appreciated.
     
  2. jdlaw93

    jdlaw93 New Member

    Ph.D. may be better

    While not impossible, passing the CA bar exam after attending an online law school program is very difficult, although not impossible. CA and NY are the toughest bar exams to pass, so you're taking a big risk in time and money by pursing a JD because if you don't pass the bar, the degree becomes worthless. Moreover, because online law schools are not ABA approved you would have to practice law in CA for 5 years before you could waive into any other jurisdiction. I'm also not sure a law degree will be as helpful in tax and accounting. In my opinion the Ph.D. may be a safer bet. You may also wish to take the IRS' exam to become a "Registered Agent" with the IRS. If you do take the exam and pass, you will be able to represent clients before the IRS in tax matters. Only attorneys, CPA's and Registered Agents are authorized to represent clients before the IRS. Its not an easy exam, but may be well worth the effort given what you are choosing to do. The RA credentials will only enhance your marketability.

    Good Luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2006
  3. worthingco

    worthingco New Member

    JD or PhD?

    If I was going to practise or teach law in the U.S., I would definitely choose an ABA-accredited law school with a excellent reputation. I'm certainly not knocking Taft - I think it offers a good decent JD programme. But...if you're going to study law, get a JD with maximum utility (i.e. one where you can practise anywhere in the US...should you go that route). Perhaps you can study for a JD part-time at night at your local university?

    Given your situation...I'd go for the PhD - at least for now. You appear to have a solid background in accounting so why not capitalize on that experience? If you're going to teach at the post-secondary level, a PhD is almost a must these days.

    Good luck to you.
     
  4. fortiterinre

    fortiterinre New Member

    My advice, since you are asking, is to steer clear of any professional program that does not allow you to practice as a professional in the vast majority of the country. A JD that makes you a bar-eligible attorney in only one state (usually California), a PhD in psychology that does not allow you to call yourself a psychologist or be licensed as such in most states, advanced nursing degrees that don't require you to be a registered nurse first--run away from these, they will always be shady.

    A growing number of schools offer M.J. "Master of Jurisprudence" degrees that are designed for the legally-oriented person who does not want to practice law. My alma mater has a new master's in clinical regulatory science for the non-nurse that is a great degree. There are more mental health degrees than ever before. I endorse studying for one's knowledge and benefit, both personal and professional, but professional programs need to meet professional standards, and you will spend your life trying to explain any professional degree that does not. Good luck, and take your time deciding.
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    A PhD from an RA institution is guaranteed to improve your stature in academia and look good on your resume. CPA+PhD is cool.

    A DETC JD, on the other hand, is of little value unless you can also pass the Bar exam, and statistically the odds are against you. CPA+JD is not cool, if you have to qualify it by explaining that your JD does not allow you to practice law.

    The correct designation for this IRS qualification is "Enrolled Agent", not "Registered Agent". The EA title is certainly respectable; however, it is not as valuable as the CPA title, which the Original Poster already has. In my (obviously subjective) opinion, CPA+PhD is cooler than CPA+EA.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2006
  6. PAULWENLIUESQ

    PAULWENLIUESQ Member

    I graduated from La Verne Law (non-ABA at the time) 10+ years ago and passed the bar. I am now working on my Ph.D dissertation with NCU(NCU was RA candidate when I started). The point is that a JD can offer you an opportunity to start a new career (JD+CPA=tax attorney?). You can go for a Ph.D/DBA any time AFTER you have established your own law/CPA practice. No rush! Go take the baby bar and pass it.
     
  7. sshuang

    sshuang New Member

    Re: Ph.D. may be better


    Hi jdlaw93,

    Thanks for your input...
    I have CPA license, therefore, I am already qualified to represent clients before the IRS. Since only attorneys can represent clients in the tax court, being an attorney might be helpful to me in the future if I ever set up a tax/accounting practice. However, a DETC J.D. can’t really help me to land a job in academia. Man, I guess I just can't nail two birds with one stone.
     
  8. sshuang

    sshuang New Member


    Hi PAULWENLIUESQ,

    This is actually what I have in mind.
    But man, at least another six years of school...
    And passing the CA bar and writing the dissertation...
    God...

    By the way, what field of law do you practice?
    Did you find it difficult to land a job with a non-ABA J.D. at the time?
     
  9. sshuang

    sshuang New Member

    Re: JD or PhD?


    Hi worthingco,

    Thanks for your input as well…
    If I am single now, I will definitely attend an ABA approved law school. However, with my current job and family obligation, it's just not feasible at the moment. In addition, the cost of obtaining an ABA J.D. is astronomical. Is it really worth it?
     
  10. sshuang

    sshuang New Member


    Hi CalDog,

    How does CPA+PhD+JD+EA sounds?
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    An ABA accredited JD is expensive, but yes, it does typically offer an impressive return on investment.

    If your goal is to teach at a university, however, then I'd think that the doctorate from Touro would be a better choice, either than an ABA JD, or even a DETC one.

    Good luck,

    -=Steve=-
     
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    You shouldn't jump so far ahead. Take it one step at a time.
    In theory, CPAs can represent clients in tax court, if they pass a special examination (this is different from the EA exam). As noted in Wikipedia:
    However, passing the Tax Court exam may actually be more difficult than completing the JD and passing the Bar. For more info on the Tax Court exam for CPAs, see this link.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2006
  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I should note that there is one potentially significant advantage to the EA title: since it is issued by a Federal agency (the IRS), it is recognized on a national basis. In contrast, the CPA title is issued by state accounting boards, and is only recognized on a state-by-state basis. Some CPAs find it convenient to also have the EA title, because they can then do tax work for out-of-state clients, without reapplying for the CPA license in that state.
     
  14. sshuang

    sshuang New Member


    If I ever start a tax/accounting practice, I think I will study and take the EA exam just to refresh my tax knowledge.
     
  15. sshuang

    sshuang New Member


    Hi CalDog,

    Few years back, I actually was thinking about taking the Tax Court exam. I gave up on the idea after realizing the complexity of the exam and its limited utilization. And that's why I decided to pursue J.D. at Taft years ago.
     
  16. worthingco

    worthingco New Member

    JD

    That really depends. How many years do you have left before you retire? If you still have a ways to go in your professional career...I think an ABA-approved JD would serve you well - from a cost/benefit point of view. I'm quite aware of how expensive it is to study law...but the return from that investment over the years would be favourable.
     
  17. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The shortest path to arrive at a truly useful degree would be to re-apply at Touro and move forward. Of course, you could look at other doctoral programs, but Touro is going to be the most straight-forward approach; another school may not accept but a few of your existing credits.

    Dave
     
  18. sshuang

    sshuang New Member


    I might just end up re-applying at Touro. However, if I decide to pursue both RA Ph.D. and DETC J.D., which one do you think I should work on first? Somebody suggested the law degree.
     
  19. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Now, that's a tough choice without knowing all your thoughts about what you might do with the degrees. However, I know you from the TUIPHDBA group, so I'll give it a shot.

    Taft DETC JD Route: I believe that you finished one year at Taft, so that gives you three more years from when you start plus the need to pass the bar. If you don't pass the bar, then the DETC JD degree is going to be of limited utility in the legal profession and very little utility in getting more teaching contracts beyond your MBA/CPA qualification.

    Touro RA Ph.D. Route: I believe that you finished six classes at Touro. That leaves you five classes, comps, the dissertation prospectus, proposal, and dissertation. Completing this route is also going to be at least three years part time. In the end, you'll have acheived a regionally accredited Ph.D., with broad utility for teaching in small to medium sized colleges and universities.

    To net it out, the JD is a similar amount of hard work over the same amount of time for a somewhat unknown outcome. The Ph.D. is a ton of work but the outcome is very clear. Also, the first year of legal study you've done is probably very applicable to your current work, so you've already walked away something you can put on your resume.

    I say re-apply to Touro to see if that really is a option, at this point. If Touro is an option to start soon, then I still think the Ph.D. is going to give you biggest payout over the long haul.

    Dave
     

Share This Page