Who Needs Harvard?

The world keeps changing.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/13/time.cover.tm/index.html

 

From the article:

"Their message: While you may not be able to get into Harvard, it also may not matter anymore. Just ask the kids who have chosen to follow a different road."

In reality, it never mattered. Successful people come from all sorts of paths, and most of them did not travel through Harvard, Yale, Princeton or any other top 10 Ivy League school.

No matter where you went to school, your success is going to depend largely on how well you perform, and how you're able to find and take advantage of opportunities.

All any school can do is help lay an educated foundation from which you can draw from when neeeded, but how well you apply it is up to you and you alone.

 

I disagree, gentlemen. I haven't read the entire article so maybe the offer a counterargument for this. Not only one gets objectively a better education, but you also make very powerful friends that will help you out when you need it. And that counts even more than a good education. I see it every day.

 

I think "subjectively" would be a better term, because alumni of other Ivy League schools will probably disagree.

There is no doubt that Harvard provides top-notch offerings, but it being definitely better than other schools in its class is certainly not a fact, but rather an opinion; a widely-held opinion, but an opinion nonetheless.

But, on the other hand, that may not happen at all. You may not make any friends, or at least any that will do you any favors or pull any strings.

Besides that, making connections is not limited to an institution. Networking can be done in a number of different ways, and if we plan to be successful we normally have to use a number of different avenues... I think we can all attest to that.

 

All I can say is that my wife is an LSE graduate (another elite university), and she gets tons of help, hints, references, etc in those alumni meetings they hold every once in a while. And I know she has done the same for others. I think it is safe to assume it happens something similar at Harvard, where many of its graduates fill up the best positions in industry and goverment.

 

There is no denying that using "Harvard" and "unsuccessful" in the same sentence is somewhat of an oxymoron

I just think we should always consider that there is more than one path that can be taken to achieve comparable, high-level success.

I think if you ask most people what the ideal educational/life path is for kids, it would be: 1. get straight A's 2. Get into an Ivy league school (preferably Harvard) 3. Go on to great success.

... But when you look at guys like Colin Powell who managed just a 'C' average throughout High School and then graduated from the City College of New York (CCNY); it puts things into perspective, especially for the underdog.

 

Certainly, Colin Powell is a great example, but perhaps an exception. Of course one can make it by herself, but I think sooner or later one needs a little (or a big) push to completely succeed. If one has friends above, it probably becomes way easier. Just my two cents.

 

Several months back I read a survey of the educations of the CEOs of the nations top corporations, F400 types. There were a fair number of people with MBAs from Harvard or Wharton or Stanford, but there were also a ton of guys and gals with no degree at all or maybe a bachelor's from U of Toledo or Southern Illinois or other less prestigious institutions. In fact, as I looked at it, I was really struck by how unimpressive the majority of the nation's CEOs educational backgrounds were. Ivy League credentials will tend to open doors, but once in private enterprise, you're judged primarily by your ability to produce, and no education can substitute for the bottom line.

 

Why?

If you study the same textbooks, what is the difference if you go to a Community College, to COSC or to Harvard?

 

Because an education is not just the textbook, it's the ability of the professor to communicate the concepts and inspire you, it's the quality of your fellow students and how much they push you to achieve and how much you learn from them. I teach at a community college. My wife--a high school valedictorian--went to a selective private college in the upper Midwest. The students at her school had more in common with Harvard than with the students where I teach. She got to rub shoulders with a lot of bright people, and a lot of people got to rub shoulders with her. They made each other smarter, their coffee shop conversations were on a much higher level. My wife knew that the level of work expected of her was high, so she jumped high.

That said, there are highly intelligent people who can get great educations without even attending college or at a nondescript community college, but they typically do so by force of their own will, and it's a tougher road to hoe. Mark Twain and Benjamin Franklin got their educations at home and at small print shops and newspapers, Thomas Edison got his education where he could grab it. Bill Gates, after he dropped out of Harvard, got his education by doing, not by listening to narrow-minded professors say it couldn't be done.

So I'm not saying you can't get a great education away from a prestigious school, but unless you're a genius or a driven self-starter, it will be tougher. And unfortunately, most students today are neither genius nor self-starting.

 

In other words: It's not what you know...it's WHO you know.

Sounds like a lot of jobs I've had.

 

Certainly.

I think there are many exceptions existing without it being the rule. Like, Michael Dell for example... he didn't finish college and is yet responsible for the Dell computers empire (I'm behind a Dell right now!)... Dave Thomas never even graduated from High School and yet he built the Wendy's empire. Then there is Ray Kroc who built the McDonald's empire, and he too never went to College. Tom Monahan who created Domino's Pizza is another great example.

Very true.

When I was younger, I certainly didn't get pushed at all... well, it was more like nobody really being concerned with what I did. Support plays such a big factor, and I think Parents who fail to give that to their children are really hurting their child's chances. I'm not saying they should push like those lunatic's who constantly force their children into pageants and talent competitions; I'm talking about just pushing them to be the best at the things they love to do.

Sure, some of us can dig down deep and find the support from within, of course I've never thought that this was the best way. I mean, it sounds nice for a story of triumph but just knowing that human beings need external validation, it makes it hard for me to believe that people make it this way in large numbers. I still firmly believe that a good support network gives a developing mind the best chance.

 

I pulled a list of great works years ago and endeavored to read them as much as possible eventually doing so with over four hundred texts if you include several books from key thinkers, example Aristotle. Add to this many modern texts and I'm very well-educated at least on par with a Ph.D. from any brick and mortar school. I decided no main stream program could convert that into a degree and took another option to get one. So its not impossible to get by without college in fact by what I can see unless your going to an elite institution most seem to be trade schools disguised as colleges.

Now I am earning a BA for professional reasons to hold a generally acceptable degree but I deem a less valid credential than my doctorate. And I had to verify my reding list, do a dissertation and defend it and submit some other projects including 10 academic papers. Why is this different than the University of London External Degree Program where one takes tests for a bachelors? Its not.

 

I agree with this post 100%. No further comment needed, I think.

 

Well, one thing springs to mind: passing exams is not the same thing as verfied reading lists. Another concerns the quality of instruction versus self-education. The supervision of instructors, in gereral, establishes a certain floor of performance. Obviously, such a florr matters more in some fields (eg, nursing and engineeering) than in others (eg, poetry).

But otherwise your point is well-taken: there are few differences.

 

I agree with Steve.

Of course, Rushmore is not "above board" and that is why it flees from jurisdiction to jurisdiction to avoid scrutiny. It is a mill.

 

In addition, it is my understanding that the external degrees are all duplicates of resident degrees. They cover the same material and are subject to the same examination scheme.

Am I correct on that?

Regards,
GME

 

Yup.