Degree Mills can work for you

I have a true story about a degree mill. I knew my job was coming to an end because the Y2K scare would be over soon. I had military training and 10 years experience but no degree. In addition to the military training, I had taken over 30 credits at community colleges in computers/electronics. The only thing that I lacked was the general education classes.

I made a decision in mid 1999 to get an AS in Electronic Technology from a degree mill. It cost me $149.95 and I wrote my own transcript. When I lost my job in February 2000, I had 10 years experience and an AS degree.

During an interview I was asked if my degree was accredited and I said NO. I got the job, earned two AA degrees from an RA school in the next 9 months by using CLEP exams, and got a promotion. Now I am two classes away from my BS in Business from a California school.

The degree mill AS is no longer listed on my resume and I am still taking classes from RA schools.

So who got hurt by using a degree from a degree mill? I didn’t, my employer didn’t, the way I see it…everybody won!!!

 

Well you are out $149.95. If your employer didn't care that your degree wasn't accredited than you didn't need one to begin with.

So you still got taken as far as I am concerned.

 

Stan,

Welcome to DegreeInfo! You are to be commended for: 1)Earning two associate's degrees by CLEP; 2) Pursuing the BA; and 3) Dropping the degree mill degree from your CV.
However, promoting the degree mill associate's as something positive does much more damage than good to distance learning.

You were asked by your prospective employer if the degree was accredited, you said no, and they hired you anyway. The employer either: 1) Didn't require an accredited degree; 2) Didn't require a degree at all; or 3) Hired you based on your experience. So this would not mean the degree mill credential worked for you. Only if you were hired based on that degree alone, could your thesis be true. And if so, then the employer was probably uneducated regarding issues of accreditation.

Continue your BA studies!

Russell

 

Hmmm.

I am not, offhand, aware of any mills that offer associates degrees for $150.

Further if the employer was asking about whether the degree was accredited, s/he knew at least the basics. The fact that they hired you in spite of a fraudulent degree means that you were hired for your other experience, not for your fraudulent degree.

I find the entire story more than a little implausible.

Point of information for others considering such actions: This is a VERY dangerous and unwise move.

An increasing number of employers now do some sort of credential checking. For small employers, it might be using an outside service that does a basic review of a resume/application, comparing the schools to lists of known bogus schools, and making calls to verify the awarding of degrees from legit schools. (This in addition to credit and criminal records checks). Bears' Guide is a resource that an increasing number of employers and credential checkers rely on as a resource to determine which schools are bogus, and for $30, even the tiniest employer or part-time HR person can afford that basic level of credential checking.

So... it almost never pays to get a fraudulent degree. If you insist in committing fraud, you're just as well off to print your own diploma and transcript as buying one from one of the many fraudulent schools out there, and you'll save yourself a bunch of money. (And still stand an excellent chance of getting fired/demoted/blackballed at the time you least expect it.)

 

First of all, the position I was hired for did require an AS degree.
I am not promoting a degree mill. I am just saying that they CAN have a benefit. I feel that if I did not earn an AA from an RA school, I would have never gotten the fake degree. I knew that I would earn my degree within one year but I needed to have it right now.
Don't judge everyone that gets a degree from a degree mill the same. Some people might have a valid reason, or at least valid at the time.

 

According to your story, you benefited and had no consequences. Others aren't so lucky. One personnel manager who had asked me for info on a school later emailed me to say that after he had learned enough to know the school was a fake, he didn't hire the applicant who had listed a degree from it. He *would* have hired the applicant based on other qualifications were it not for the listing of this fake school.

------------------
Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

The main reason for obtaining a degree mill credential is to convince others that one has a legitimate credential. Sure, there are those who may obtain one as a novelty item or a joke (As John Bear did the MD from Harvard), but in these cases everyone knows it is a joke.

For example, if one paid $99 to a certain school which advertises in USA Today, and obtained their BA, then begins using the degree professionally (on resumes, etc.), IMO, this is fraudulent, unethical and deceptive.

Russell

 

Just for clarity, it was a law degree. He requested a medical degree, but the company counter-offered with the law degree.

Rich Douglas

 

Hey, even "Mr. Memory" has occasional lapses. My Harvard M.D. came from Alumni Arts in Oregon, which sold very skillful reproductions of the diplomas of more than 300 universities. Following the FBI visit, the Justice Department was apparently unable to persuade the Grand Jury to issue an indictment, but the proprietor closed shop, and is now in the pre-fab home business. The Harvard law degree (sent in lieu of the medical degree I had ordered) came from a different counterfeiter, this one in Florida, run by a stockbroker. He, too, was not prosecuted, and now runs a packaging machinery business in South Carolina. The Florida diploma was not a reproduction of a Harvard one, but the kind of thing anyone could do on their home computer.

Incidentally, I have looked through the Bears' Guide diploma mill database, and I have not been able to find anyone selling Associate's degrees for $150 or anywhere near that. It would certainly add to StanMan's credibility if he/she identified the "school."

 

Thank you, John, for coming to my rescue on this one. I had a short circuit and got the two stories blended into one. But I shall not say "I did not inhale," because I did and stand corrected. A law degree it is.

BTW, thanks for your continued input.

Russell

 

Aww, ta heck with both of ya! I'm taking what's left of my short-term memory and going home.

Seriously, I wonder if we only scratch the surface around here regarding the scummy things going on in the name of higher education. That is why I continue to preach awareness vs. prevention. You can't stop these people; they're like cockroaches and they keep popping up. Like the "war on drugs," you have to go after the demand side of the equation. The supply will always be there. And in the case of diploma mills and acillary activities, the education has to occur with both sets of consumers: students and their employers.

Rich, apologizing to Russell for not having my "Bear Lore" in strict order. I guess I'll pull an all-nighter with BGs 6-14!

 

Since first considering this email thread yesterday, I have recalled thoughts I've had before about lying about one's education. Spending 4 years at college, just to get a piece of paper, I realized when I was sitting at one of my first jobs that one could just as well lie. Potential employers pretty much never check credentials. I could have claimed to have graduated from just about any university and got the job. That would "work for you," too. Why pay $150.00 for a piece of paper from a third-rate degree mill when one could just lie and claim to have graduated from a first- or second-rate college or university? The level of dishonesty seems pretty comparable.

 

No doubt about it, Rich. The exploding time bombs which have been reported on this forum constitute the proverbial tip of the iceberg. There are no doubt multiple thousands who have never been caught. So USA Today (and others) keep advertising, "schools" keep selling degrees, and people keep using them.

Russell

 

And, indeed, I would agree that the dishonesty of claiming a fraudulent degree is no better or worse than claiming a degree from a school where you didn't ever attend.

However, the statement that employers don't check credentials is simply not true any more. Even some of the smallest employers now either check themselves or employ outside services, many of which offer basic credential checks that take less than a day and cost under $50. Because of liability issues and lawsuits, many employers have gotten a lot more wary in the last 5 years or so.

 

Originally posted by StanMan:
First of all, the position I was hired for did require an AS degree.

Obviously it did not, or you would not have gotten the job. The employer, according to you, knew the school was a fraud and you claim to have gotten the job anyway. So either it wasn't really required, they made an exception, or (more likely) the entire story is fabricated.

If it isn't, I invite you to tell us the name of the school in question.

I am not promoting a degree mill. I am just saying that they CAN have a benefit.


Sure, the opportunity for several years of free room and board at one of our country's finer penal institutions.

I knew that I would earn my degree within one year but I needed to have it right now.

Then you could have enrolled, told the employer you were enrolled, and you most likely would have been considered on that basis. Besides, if you follow the threads here, it is generally not too difficult to earn an RA associates by CLEP-DANTES exams in a very short time, if you have the background and knowledge required.


Don't judge everyone that gets a degree from a degree mill the same. Some people might have a valid reason, or at least valid at the time.

That's rather like saying "Don't judge all people who rob banks the same way. Some of them may have kids to feed."

The argument is totally bogus. If, in fact, an employer hired someone (i.e., you) with a bogus credential, then you unfairly beat out another applicant who worked for and earned his or her degree, and that's simply wrong. No equivocation possible.

No, I agree with John. Without more detail to back it up, I am near certain that the alleged story is a lame attempt by a degree mill apologist to justify fraud.

 

I amust agree that this post is more than likely a sham by StanMan. An interesting story but no substance to back it up. An employer who would knowingly accept a fake degree. I am very skeptical that the employer would accept the fake degree.

John

 

There are some side effects that someone of "tender" age may not consider. For example, if you ever need a security clearance, anytime in the course of your entire career, there may be some embarrassing moments for you during the vetting.

 

Maybe StanMan is the one and only "Stan the Man" who was full of the stuff that sticks to your boots. Do you remember him? We'll see... )

Peter French
Australia

 

This is by far one of the funniest threads I have ever seen. The job did require an Associates. Without it, I would have never gotten the interview. This story is completely true. Believe it or not, I am an honest person.
During the interview I was asked if my AS was from an accredited school and I said “No”.
The way I actually found this school was by its listing in a book I found at Barnes and Noble that listed distance education degrees. It listed all the RA schools as well as DETC schools and for some reason I noticed a listing for Summit University of Louisiana and their motto of “Every deserves an Associates degree”.
I wrote my transcript and sent it to Raymond Chase. A month later I received my degree.
I admit that every time I got a call from HR during my first two months of employment, I thought my job was gone. I quickly worked on the CLEP’s and PROUDLY earned an AA from the University of Phoenix.
Does anyone doubt my story now?

 

Thanks for the straightforward response.

Of all the non-wonderful schools out there, Summit was one of the least objectionable, in my opinion. The late Ray Chasse, for all his odd involvements and behaviors never, to my knowledge, made a false accreditation claim. Summit had its own building (albeit tiny) with their name on it; they operated legally under Louisiana law as it was then, and they actually had some people with fairly strong backgrounds in traditional higher education involved, such as Mel Suhd.