Torn.. .NCU or NSU (Nova) Ed.D/Ph.D

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by DSinNJ, Jul 17, 2006.

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  1. DSinNJ

    DSinNJ New Member

    Hi, all,
    I've been reading avidly for a few weeks trying to decide my best option for my doctorate. I didn't want to hijack Steve's NCU Ed.D. thread, so I'm starting a new one, tho it's related.

    I've completed two MAs (MAT and MA in C/I) and am completing the coursework needed for a principal's certificate, but want to continue my education. (All done B & M, btw, though I've also taken several DL courses.) I'm just completely torn.

    After much research, I've narrowed it down between Northcentral and NOVA Southeastern Universities. Both have programs I am interested in, both are doable for me (residency requirement, etc). My goals are to continue in public education (in NJ as my user name suggests), likely in an administrative capacity. Once I either have a doctorate or am in adminstration, I'll be able to adjunct. When I retire from public education, I would like to (continue to) teach college. Though I don't know that I'll need a tenured college position at that time? For now, I'm concerned about time, $, and reputation.

    Time:
    I really do like the NCU self-paced program. While I don't HAVE to do a doctorate within any particular time frame, the sooner I could complete one, the happier I would be. :) I'd like to finish in three years ideally.

    $:
    I see NSU will be $625 for Fall 2006. TIhat adds up with 66 credits to take. I also kind of worry about the dissertation being extended ($2100 a term) due to things outside my control. I like that they do do financial aid as that would help. The reality is is that I'll only make $1000 more a year with a doctorate in my current position (and it likely won't add income if/when I go into administration, tho it may assist in getting that position!)
    I like the pay up front aspect of NCU & adore their pricing, of course. The 10% off keeps the price right around $21k for the whole thing.

    Reputation:
    NSU is more established and "respected" right now, but it has taken time. Is time what NCU needs? Do you think that by the time I really want to use the doctorate, NCU will be more respected (like Walden is, for example)? I do wish NCU required a MAT/GRE as I think that would lend them to more credibility, but then Walden doesn't either... Additionally, a plus about NCU is that I could just as easily ;) complete a Ph.D. versus an Ed.D. Like it was posted in Steve's thread, the Ed.D. is a "dime a dozen." I've seen/heard this several places which makes the Ph.D. more appealing.
    I like that NSU's name/reputation is more solid (for now), but worry about being part of such a large system.
    I've heard only good things about NCU at this point, but then I hear really positive things about NOVA also.
    I have no issue with distance learning from a school with a good reputation; I feel eventually most people won't.

    I'm just torn. I feel that reputation-wise, I'm better off with NSU. I feel time and $ wise, I'm better off with NCU. I go back and forth.

    Any feedback is appreciated greatly.
    DS in NJ
     
  2. StevenKing

    StevenKing Active Member

    Torn

    Dear DS,
    I thought it interesting that the schools I've looked into did not require the GRE. Liberty (conservative Christian school) does...but is a lot cheaper and is RA.

    Good luck settling your dilemma - let us know which direction you choose. Since I am just trying to "break into" education - I am waiting to see if one of a few job opportunities peaks. Then I'll know the direction in which I need to proceed.

    Kindly,
    Steven King, MBA
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Good question

    Ordinarily I'd say NSU over NCU because doctoral programs of the former have a track record when it comes to the success of its alumni and those of the latter do not.

    However, that's for those interested in higher education. For K-12 I'm not sure it matters beyond just checking off the doctoral box.

    -=Steve=-
     
  4. DSinNJ

    DSinNJ New Member

    Thank you, both, Steven & Steve. I am still waffling, but beginning to lean towards NCU (for today).

    Any thoughts concerning Ed.D vs. Ph.D?

    D
     
  5. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

    While I tend to agree with Steve that NSU will likely get more respect than NCU, keep in mind that with NSU, you're not exactly dealing with a prestigious school. If you put any stock into U.S. News & World Report’s college rankings, NSU comes in as a tier 4 school, which is generally considered the bottom of the barrel. A degree from NSU may have more utility than one from NCU, but if you’re simply looking to "check the doctorate box," both schools will do the job.

    If given the choice, go for the PhD. A doctorate is a doctorate, but, if all things are equal, a PhD will garner more respect than an EdD. And, if you're going to put forth the effort to earn a doctorate, you may as well go for the PhD. Besides most people recognize the letters PhD; but, as for the EdD, you'd be surprised how many people have no clue that an EdD is actually a doctorate.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's the ranking for undergraduate schools. Schools can end up in wildly different places when considering different programs. For example, George Mason is only a Tier 3 school for undergraduate study, but 66th for graduate study in education.

    (Having said that, I'm not sure NSU is any higher for gradauate study in education. I was just saying there might be a difference, and it's worth checking out if you take stock in that sort of thing.)

    -=Steve=-
     
  7. Michael Nunn

    Michael Nunn New Member

    I agree. Why go for the EdD when you can go for the PhD?
     
  8. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

    I stand corrected. Graduate rankings for education programs.

    I agree with you about the ranking of different programs. A school that is ranked low overall may be ranked much higher for a specific program [if you take stock in that sort of thing]. ;)
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I have to admit that it's a factor for me. I realize that the U.S. News ranings are a very imperfect measurement, but there aren't many other ways to measure academic prestige. Where you go to school is a defining personal and professional aspect, and rightly or wrongly it's one by which you'll be judged for the rest of your life. Best to go somewhere at least somewhat noteworthy -- not necessarily Ivy League, but at least somewhere in the middle.

    BTW, I should have used the example of GMU's law school rather than their graduate education program -- the law school is top 50/Tier 1.

    -=Steve=-
     
  10. duff

    duff New Member

    Hey DSinNJ,

    I am in the final dissertation phase at Nova now. The document is written, I have committee approval, and now it is in final format review. I started in 2003 and it will have taken me exactly 3 years to finish when I get that final stamp of approval. In that time, NSU has increased tuition from $500 a credit hour to what it is now. It went up every year....much like every other school in America. The continuation fee is pricey and I have had to endure that for 3 semesters now. I finished coursework in the summer of 2005. It is my fault for not staying on top of my dissertation. My committee has been great.

    I chose the Ed.D. for my own personal reasons.
    a. I wanted to do applied research vs. theoretical research
    b. I wanted to complete a dissertation that had applied applications that I could use for the institution I was working for.
    c. I was interested in Organizational Leadership which could be applied to education or business & industry.
    d. I am an administrator, not a full time professor.

    Regarding a Ph.D. or Ed.D.....from my experience in higher education I have not seen where it makes a big difference. Most of the upper level administrators (Deans, VPs, and Pres.) at the Comm. College I used to work for all had Ed.D's. The only time you saw a Ph.D. was your occasional full time professor. Now I work for a private 4-year college and there is a good mix of PhD’s and Ed.D’s in administration as well as among the professors.

    If you want to work for a major research university in a "Professor" capacity, go for the Ph.D. and make sure it is from a top tier university. Anything else....an Ed.D. is just as competitive. The degree is only one piece of the puzzle. You as a person and what you have accomplished, published, etc, are the other pieces. The coursework for an Ed.D. is virtually the same as a Ph.D.

    If Ed.D's are a dime a dozen....everyone would have one. The Ed.D is the applied degree of the Ph.D. in education much like the DBA is the applied degree of the Ph.D. in business. It is a preference based on what you want to accomplish. Just my thoughts.

    Duff
     
  11. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    I wonder about this statement... I think you'll find that many Ed.D. programs are structured to be research-oriented and identical to the Ph.D. in Education.

    Moreover, in secondary schools, the Ed.D. is the more common designation.

    Has the original poster considered the Ph.D. in Educational Leadership at Touro?

    Dave
     
  12. DSinNJ

    DSinNJ New Member

    Thank you all for the additional responses!

    Duff, your experiences are very helpful. I just completed my MA in Curriculum & Instruction with a teacher action research project focusing on problem-based learning. I'd like to continue the study (it was only six months) through the next three years which does make the Ed.D. a bit more appealing. I do have some ideas regarding mentoring/new teachers professional development that may work for a Ph.D. also...

    Dave, I looked at EVERYTHING- Touro, UNL, even Columbia & GWU, but $ (Columbia & GWU- both cohorts) and interest played a big part. I'm currently completing the required 4 courses I need for the principal certificate; I don't "want" educational leadership. I'm much more interested in instructional leadership, curriculum, and technology. (Tho as a psych major (undergrad) the organizational leadership pieces are very interesting.)

    I'm beginninng to think that financially speaking, I'd be just as well at NCU. I hate to have it come down to that, but I also have to be realistic about it (future benefits of the degree). I mostly throw around the $ and opportunity a doctorate would offer, but in all reality, I just WANT to do it and say I DID it. :) School is fun for me. I do worry about what I'd do *after* a doctorate...*lol*

    D
     
  13. duff

    duff New Member

    Dave,

    I agree with you and it really depends on the school. I did a great deal of research with Nova but it was more "applied" research in general. I didn’t have to come up with any new theory to build on someone else’s theory (and make it new). Some schools like UNL offer the Ed.D. and Ph.D. with little difference between the programs regarding the research component.

    Duff
     
  14. Michael Nunn

    Michael Nunn New Member

    Then whats the whole point of offering an EdD If it's going to be as research oriented as a PhD?

    These education schools.......
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2006
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Tony Piña told me that the EdD was originally intended to be a practitioner's doctorate, with other requirements than a dissertation. When it was deployed, however, those doing so didn't make it as different as it was planned to be, and so the distinction is mostly meaningless.

    -=Steve=-
     
  16. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The DBA is a similar situation. In the leading schools, the Ed.D. and DBA are full research degrees though. The reason may be that so called applied problems are more straight-forward to pursue; there is less baggage in terms of a research stream to reconcile and fewer qualified experts to comment.

    Dave
     

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