Disgraced schools and forgiveness

Hello all,

I’ve been a long time advocate of California Coast University due to being so inexpensive and have recommended several people to them, however I am wondering if I am unintentionally doing a disservice to them. You see, these people generally work in Federal work and after googling (spelling?) the words “resume” “California Coast” and “MBA” in the advanced search I pulled up quite a few articles in where federal employees had used tuition reimbursement to pay for tuition when CCU was unaccredited, which I am sure violated a policy. Anyhow, in these articles California Coast University and Kennedy Western are repeated beat about as being everything from “unaccredited” which they surely were to “diploma mills”…..which I strongly doubt. Nonetheless, the former FEMA director with an MBA from CCU while it was unaccredited threw CCU into the spotlight and tarnished the name.

So I know that they are now accredited, but the problem is, according to one article they had ferreted out 426 federal employees from CCU while unaccredited. So I’m wondering if I am setting up people for future grief and undue suspicion (if they even get a promotion or hired in the first place) because of the former reputation of the school. Any opinions?

For those who don't want to search it, here is one such article.

http://www.davickservices.com/Some%20Officials%20Not%20What%20They%20Seem.htm

 

Even before their DETC accreditation, I never would have put CCU into the degree mill category, but this shows the pitfalls of operating for years with no attempts at accreditation.

I think K-W might be onto something by applying for accreditation under a different name, to get a fresh start.

 

I have lectured long and hard in the past on the sin of judging a group of schools by the membership of one school and one school by membership in a group of schools, especially when the grouping is somewhat artificial. Grouping schools under a label of accredited or unaccredited is convenient but not always accurate. I have repeatedly made this point under withering bombast from some individuals.

The fact that a school is unaccredited does not make a school bad or substandard, but simply hard to analyze conveniently and possibly suspect for earning a degree that will be widely accepted. Yes, bad schools are nearly always not regionally accredited. However, a school that is not regionally accredited may not be bad or substandard in any way. (Unlikely, but possible.)

In sum, I don't think that CCU has ever been a degree mill, but without regional accreditation it will continue to be questioned.

Dave

 

I don't think CCU was ever a degree mill either, but their name was dragged through the mud. Do you think that stigma will stick when federal employers see the CCU tag on a resume?

 

CCU and KWU are not in the same category not now and not in the past.

In the 90's CA state officially published that CA Approved schools
are equivalent to US Accredited Universities.

I have seen the certificate of approval stating this and also
other state literature, publications supporting this statement.

We know the history and that it wasn't accepted as such but maybe just maybe legally one may argue that it was equivalent to accredited and this didn't violate the regulations.

Learner

 

Your post reminded me of this quote from the CCU website:

Source: http://www.calcoast.edu/recogn.php

Dave

 

Dave I see similarity but what I was pointing to is to the approval that was given by CA department of Education before
they moved the post secondary approval to the consumer Protection and the burro.

When I have time I will look it up the publication of 1989 and 1990.

One clearly could understand the the CA Approval was equivalent to US Accreditation. the message that was transmitted that is.

Learner

 

But do you guys consider the reputation of the school to be mud after all of this?

 

I didn't consider it mud beforehand, but I do think CCU is going to have post-accreditation growing pains for awhile.

Remember, both Columbia Southern and Andrew Jackson didn't exactly have stellar reputations before they tightened-up and earned DETC accreditation.

 

Abner, I didn't see anything except a link to CCU.

 

The link could have been removed. That's both the beauty and trouble with Wikipedia.

Dave

 

Yeah, Dave is right. It was there Monday night, and now is gone. It was lengthy piece debunking the CCU involvement in the alleged Federal employee scandal. I guess one of the accusations was that CCU (and two other schools) sold degrees for a flat fee, or a monthly payment plan. The counter argument was that CCU requires exams and essays in order to complete any of their degree programs. In other words, the degree is not merely "Purchased" in a mill like fashion, which requires no courswork. It was further noted many schools use this payment plan. Also, it mentioned the fact no charges, or fines have been levied against CCU.

Anyway, that's all I remember. There were many good points made. Unfortunately, I did not commit to memory. I briefly scanned the piece and figured I could bring it up later. Sorry.

Oh well,

take care,

Abner

 

I found the rebuttal......

Its a shame that CCU is grouped with "Diploma Mills" and classified as a "Fourth Rate School at Best" .. The facts speak for itself. Its a Legit School that provides a educational service to working adults. State approved for 33 years and awarded national accredition through DETC in 2005.


http://www.answers.com/topic/california-coast-university-1

"Unfounded Controversy
CCU opened as California Western University in 1973, but changed its name following a 1981 complaint by California Western School of Law over name infringement. CCU is not and has never been associated with nor related in any way to CWU or its descendants, the United States International University or Alliant International University.

In a Government Accounting Office Special Investigations Report # GAO-04-1096T, dated September 23, 2004, CCU was mentioned as an unaccredited school that many Federal Employees attended. It was not stated however that it was a California State Approved university, independently evaluated and consistently approved for the previous 30 years.

Subsequent to the release of the GAO OSI report, CCU was awarded national accreditation from the Distance Education and Training Council. DETC accreditation is institutional and follows an onsite evaluation by third-party inspectors as does California State Approval. DETC is currently authorized by the US DOE to recognize degrees up to the masters level and applicants for accreditation may not offer doctoral degrees. As a result, CCU discontinued admitting new doctoral students, while permitting currently enrolled doctoral students to complete their curriculums. In the meantime, the Distance Education and Training Council has embarked on a pilot program to expand its scope to professional doctorates.

External links
CCU website
http://www.calcoast.edu/docs/ccu_catalog.pdf http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d041096t.pdf http://www.bppve.ca.gov/ CCU participated in a congressional oversight committee review and was mentioned in a GAO document published at the same time. The link to the GAO report is attached. The report is just nine pages. CCU was only mentioned as a university used by Federal employees. The report also indicated that the tuition system used by CCU at the time included a method where students were charged a flat fee for a degree curriculum, with the option to pay in monthly increments. The GAO report states "CCU awarded degrees after payment of a flat fee". This financial model has since been adopted by several established universities. What the GAO and congressional committee misunderstood is that CCU charged a fee for its curriculums but did not award a degree upon payment. CCU degrees were earned by taking classes and exams like any other respectable university. This is not unlike Harvard, Stanford, or MIT who require tuition payment prior to graduation. The study and the congressional committee failed to note that, at the time, CCU had been independently evaluated and periodically approved by the State of California as a degree granting university (up to the doctoral level) for the previous 30 years. The committee failed to describe the traditional course structure required for each curriculum, failed to describe the minimum amount of time required for graduation, failed to describe the minimal transferrable credit policy, failed to describe admission and graduation policies, failed to describe the requirement for official transcripts prior to admittance, and failed to explain that credits for life experience are NOT granted by CCU. Essentially all that was asked of CCU was: did Federal employees attend and how much tuition was paid?

Shortly after its participation in the congressional committee review, CCU was approved by the Distance Education Training Council (a recognized accreditor by the US Dept of Education) as a nationally accredited university while maintaining its status as a California State Approved university. CCU continues to teach its state approved doctoral students and anticipates that it will be one of the first universities to offer nationally accredited doctorates at the conclusion of its accreditor's pilot program to increase its scope.

Prior to national accreditation, California Coast University courses utilized current college textbooks typical of the top schools in the United States. Professors who oversaw the CCU courses, held advanced degrees from traditional and established universities. Each course required students to complete a study guide which included independent study for each course, written essays, multiple choice exams, and written descriptions of the methods utilized to derive exam answers in order to ensure subject matter cognizance. Doctoral students were supervised throughout their curriculum of study which included both course work and written research. Course work and final comprehensive projects or dissertations were evaluated by a qualified doctoral committee comprised of individuals holding doctoral degrees from leading traditional universities.

CCU has been used by both domestic and foreign students. CCU maintains its own lending library. CCU uses the same texts as other traditional schools. The curriculum is standard and conventional. CCU remains an excellent option for students interested in a small, well-run university where the emphasis is on low cost, self-motivated academic study and research.

The Federal Government continues to reimburse Federal employees who attend CCU. Any mention about a GAO "study" and CCU's inclusion should not be misinterpreted. CCU is an excellent university.

CCU has been a pioneer in distance learning since its founding in 1973. CCU legitimately addressed a new market niche for professional adult study. CCU has since adopted a per credit fee and has instituted exam proctors according to its accreditor's guidelines. CCU's mission description: "A pioneer in distance learning since its founding in 1973, the University provides degree completion programs designed for students whose geographic, professional, or personal time commitments keep them from completing their education in traditional on-campus programs."

This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors"

 

I like the rebuttal, why was it removed?

 

I found the rebuttal......

Its a shame that CCU is grouped with "Diploma Mills" and classified as a "Fourth Rate School at Best" .. The facts speak for itself. Its a Legit School that provides a educational service to working adults. State approved for 33 years and awarded national accredition through DETC in 2005.


http://www.answers.com/topic/california-coast-university-1

"Unfounded Controversy
CCU opened as California Western University in 1973, but changed its name following a 1981 complaint by California Western School of Law over name infringement. CCU is not and has never been associated with nor related in any way to CWU or its descendants, the United States International University or Alliant International University.

In a Government Accounting Office Special Investigations Report # GAO-04-1096T, dated September 23, 2004, CCU was mentioned as an unaccredited school that many Federal Employees attended. It was not stated however that it was a California State Approved university, independently evaluated and consistently approved for the previous 30 years.

Subsequent to the release of the GAO OSI report, CCU was awarded national accreditation from the Distance Education and Training Council. DETC accreditation is institutional and follows an onsite evaluation by third-party inspectors as does California State Approval. DETC is currently authorized by the US DOE to recognize degrees up to the masters level and applicants for accreditation may not offer doctoral degrees. As a result, CCU discontinued admitting new doctoral students, while permitting currently enrolled doctoral students to complete their curriculums. In the meantime, the Distance Education and Training Council has embarked on a pilot program to expand its scope to professional doctorates.

External links
CCU website
http://www.calcoast.edu/docs/ccu_catalog.pdf http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d041096t.pdf http://www.bppve.ca.gov/ CCU participated in a congressional oversight committee review and was mentioned in a GAO document published at the same time. The link to the GAO report is attached. The report is just nine pages. CCU was only mentioned as a university used by Federal employees. The report also indicated that the tuition system used by CCU at the time included a method where students were charged a flat fee for a degree curriculum, with the option to pay in monthly increments. The GAO report states "CCU awarded degrees after payment of a flat fee". This financial model has since been adopted by several established universities. What the GAO and congressional committee misunderstood is that CCU charged a fee for its curriculums but did not award a degree upon payment. CCU degrees were earned by taking classes and exams like any other respectable university. This is not unlike Harvard, Stanford, or MIT who require tuition payment prior to graduation. The study and the congressional committee failed to note that, at the time, CCU had been independently evaluated and periodically approved by the State of California as a degree granting university (up to the doctoral level) for the previous 30 years. The committee failed to describe the traditional course structure required for each curriculum, failed to describe the minimum amount of time required for graduation, failed to describe the minimal transferrable credit policy, failed to describe admission and graduation policies, failed to describe the requirement for official transcripts prior to admittance, and failed to explain that credits for life experience are NOT granted by CCU. Essentially all that was asked of CCU was: did Federal employees attend and how much tuition was paid?

Shortly after its participation in the congressional committee review, CCU was approved by the Distance Education Training Council (a recognized accreditor by the US Dept of Education) as a nationally accredited university while maintaining its status as a California State Approved university. CCU continues to teach its state approved doctoral students and anticipates that it will be one of the first universities to offer nationally accredited doctorates at the conclusion of its accreditor's pilot program to increase its scope.

Prior to national accreditation, California Coast University courses utilized current college textbooks typical of the top schools in the United States. Professors who oversaw the CCU courses, held advanced degrees from traditional and established universities. Each course required students to complete a study guide which included independent study for each course, written essays, multiple choice exams, and written descriptions of the methods utilized to derive exam answers in order to ensure subject matter cognizance. Doctoral students were supervised throughout their curriculum of study which included both course work and written research. Course work and final comprehensive projects or dissertations were evaluated by a qualified doctoral committee comprised of individuals holding doctoral degrees from leading traditional universities.

CCU has been used by both domestic and foreign students. CCU maintains its own lending library. CCU uses the same texts as other traditional schools. The curriculum is standard and conventional. CCU remains an excellent option for students interested in a small, well-run university where the emphasis is on low cost, self-motivated academic study and research.

The Federal Government continues to reimburse Federal employees who attend CCU. Any mention about a GAO "study" and CCU's inclusion should not be misinterpreted. CCU is an excellent university.

CCU has been a pioneer in distance learning since its founding in 1973. CCU legitimately addressed a new market niche for professional adult study. CCU has since adopted a per credit fee and has instituted exam proctors according to its accreditor's guidelines. CCU's mission description: "A pioneer in distance learning since its founding in 1973, the University provides degree completion programs designed for students whose geographic, professional, or personal time commitments keep them from completing their education in traditional on-campus programs."

This entry is from Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia. It may not have been reviewed by professional editors"

 

I agree with Bruce on this. Most of these articles are from 2004, 2005 or older. Of course you may have an incident like the FEMA director article which was recent. I believe as more and more students receive their "Accredited degrees" from CCU, many of these old stories will fall by the wayside for obvious reasons. The media will no longer be able to use "Unaccredited" in connection with CCU.

Just my two cents!

Abner