ABA to clamp down on LL.M?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JDLLM2, Jul 4, 2006.

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  1. JDLLM2

    JDLLM2 member

    Now that the ABA consent decree with the Justice Department
    expired on June 26th rumor has it that the ABA will go back and
    limit admission to the LL.M degree at ABA law schools to
    only those students that have an ABA J.D. degree.

    Anyone with a California non-ABA law degree that wants an ABA
    law school LL.M degree should seriously consider their plans now
    as the ABA most likely will revert back to its previous policy.
     
  2. novemberdude

    novemberdude New Member

    Any word or idea on how this would affect foreign law graduates? Would a University of London External LLB holder still be eligible for a US LLM? From what I understand a fair number of US (non DL) LLM programs are aimed at foreign educated lawyers. Perhaps a the entry criteria will be a qualifying law degree?

    Just for sake of curiousity, not that this is a plan I'm personally considering.

     
  3. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    I’d be very surprised if there was a change in policy. The LL.M. programs are cash cows for many ABA schools.

    The ABA does not review, approve, or accredit LL.M. programs. As I understand it, as part of the normal ABA re-approval process, the visiting team wouldn’t even know who was admitted.

    Before the consent decree, most catalogs said a JD from an ABA was necessary for admission. As a practical matter, the great majority of schools ignored this rule.
     
  4. JDLLM2

    JDLLM2 member

    Mr. Boyd,

    I have always considered William Howard Taft University and Northwestern California University to be the best of all California
    correspondence law schools in both longevity and in bar results and in reputation.

    What is your opinion on how the State Bar should handle
    the onslaught of new correspondence law schools that come and go? I believe these schools ultimately cast unfavorable light on
    the two aforementioned correspondence law schools that have a real track record of success and a great reputation and actually produce attorneys.

    Do you believe the State Bar should require DETC accreditation
    for correspondence law schools after a certain amount of time
    in operation in order to continue to be registered with the State Bar?

    Certainly William Howard Taft has raised the bar, (no pun intended) in terms of DETC accreditation, but should the State
    Bar make such accreditation mandatory, thus eliminating those
    correspodence law schools that wont survive long enough for a full 4 years for its students to actually graduate and pass the bar, or whose faculty and operation is just not up to what should be a standard for correspondence schools?

    Your opinion would be appreciated.
     
  5. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    Over the years I’ve tried to avoid using this forum to either promote Taft or criticize our competitors. Prospective students should ask a lot of questions and enroll in the program that best suits their individual needs. That may or may not be Taft.

    As the elected distance law school representative to the Committee of Bar Examiner’s Law School Council, I have attempted to contact the president or dean of each of the new schools to introduce myself and wish them well. Ethical competition is good for us and good for students.

    We started our law program with no students in 1984. Every school starts out with no students.

    Presently, the CBE has very little enforcement power. (This is not imply that any of the new schools have done anything that would warrant any such action.)

    The regulatory environment will be changing. With or without the Dunn Bill, the CBE will be exercising greater oversight over distance and unaccredited law schools. This action can be accomplished through a Supreme Court Rule without action by the legislature or the Governor. (This was the plan of the CBE before the Dunn Bill was introduced.)

    I have made the CBE aware of the resources available from DETC. I have not recommended that DETC accreditation be a requirement.
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    LL.M. as a cash cow?

    BOY HOWDY, is this ever true!

    My favorite example is UC Berkely's LL.M. program; fixed astronomical tuition for all comers, CA residents or Russian nationals. machs nichts, everyone pays the same freight. And NO financial aid!

    CA residents, of course, can go for the JSP Ph.D. at a much more reasonable cost.
     
  7. JDLLM2

    JDLLM2 member

    Mr. Boyd,

    Thank you for your response.

    By the State Bar getting tougher on enforcement it only shines greater light on the achievements of Taft and NWCU as a standard for which other schools should model themselves.

    Last question, if I may, do you think the lack of others seeking DETC, is it the amount of work or the expense in getting accreditation? Or is there more then meets the eyes to DETC
    accreditation process?

    and/or do you see the CBE in the future when taking control away from the BPPVE in providing some kind
    of "approval" or "special accreditiation" for correspondence law schools as part of new regulation?

    Thanks
     
  8. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    I'll really not in a position to answer this question. When Taft started the DETC process, I believed that virtually everyone would follow.

    The DETC requirements and fees are all set forth in the Accreditation Handbook posted on DETC's website. These are the rules that are followed. I think that I can say with a high degree of confidence that there are no secret standards or deals.

    DETC's student refund requirements are greater than California. From a financial standpoint, this might discourage some.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    NWCU isn't DETC accredited, nor have I heard of any efforts in that direction.

    I personally hope they don't try for it because they would likely have to discontinue their S.J.D. program and I'd like to take a shot at that sucker!
     
  10. JDLLM2

    JDLLM2 member

    It depends on what the CEB does about correspondence law school regulation once they take over control from the BPPVE.

    My feeling is eventually NWCU will get DETC, and only a handful of schools will have DETC, that will be the correspondence law school benchmark thus making the other schools harder to compete adn to stay in line with the new regulations that will be coming in the next 2 years.
     

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